Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
New Site Layout. [Members Welcome, Council REQUIRED]
Alright, as a council member, I think I'm the one who should do this (though maybe Cataverie would be better, since he's the one doing most of the work). We need to set up an site layout before we finalize any plans. We want to have a general idea of what kinds of sections we want, how we want to do membership, how family friendly, etc. Something like this.
I. Council Forum A. Resolutions
B. Site Administration
C. Plans For The Future
II. Articles A. Gaming News
B. GMing Advice
C. House Rules
D. Book Reviews
E. Specific Games
1. D&D
2. Shadowrun
3. Etc...
III. Public Forums A. My Campaign
B. Help Wanted
C. PbP
D. Article Submissions
E. Houserules
F. Story Time
1. Sci-fi
2. Fantasy
3. Etc... G. Etc...
IV. GMF Projects A. Game System
1. [Various sections like combat, magic, items, etc.] B. Campaign Setting
1. Geography
2. Races
3. Nations
4. Religion
5. Etc... C. Etc...
V. ????????
If anyone has more to add to this basic site layout, tell me now, and I'll add it in.
Next point, on a somewhat related note, how are we going to do Mods? What I'd suggest is that, with ideally four sections besides Council, and four council members not including Chaos Evoker, we should each get two sections to patrol (, with Chaos Evoker, as the Founder, getting a kind of God Mod status to be able to patrol all sections. That way, there are three mods per section, which should be plenty. Keep in mind, this is a very simplistic model, as some sections, such as forums, will require much more work than others, and so have Mods for different sub-sections. If I may suggest:
Articles: Nightcloak, Blade of Desecration
Public Forums: Cataverie, Xen
Projects: Cataverie, Blade of Desecration
?: Nightcloak, Xen
Another question we'll have to work on is forum rules, but for now, that can wait.
One idea to fill out that last section is a random banter forum. They have one over at the GitP site, and it works quite well as a place to relax. One disadvantage that is entirely possible to arise is that that section could unwittingly become the focus of the site. There are a number of options to prevent them, the best which I can think of is having a post number requirement (say, 200) to post on there. Think of it as a "proof of dedication" to make sure some random shmuck doesn't just decide to join and spam out.
We need to figure out a plan of recruitment. We have a small, tight-knit community here, and I like that, but we need more members if we want to make this all worth the while. Everyone, actively recruit your local GMs. After that, we need to decide on a plane of attack, one with at least good BAB and at least 2d6+1 1/2 str. damage.
This is all a very rough sketch of what I think we need. But this kind of organization does need to get done before we decide to buy a site, so we should get started on it. Do keep in mind that nothing we decide here will be final, as we will have to change and adapt depending on how we grow. Suggestions from everyone are welcome, but I need all of the Council in here and actively posting (and I mean ALL), since we'll be running the damn thing. Now MOVE PEOPLE!!!!!.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
Well I have to say that a general chat forum I feel is a good thing. Afterall we might attract people who may not be quite as fervent about GMing as we are, but would still like to get a bit of insight to add to their GMing style. And really thats what a general board could do for us. I realize that it can also very quickly disolve into a post appocolyptic flamewar. However if we try to be too specific we might end up driving potential members away in fear that they have no thoughts on any of the specific ideas.
Also, I feel that the GMing Advice could be better broken down into subcategories. for instance:
First Time GMs and GMing for Beginers; A good place to start for starting GMs
World Building Techniques; Helpful tips on how to create your own settings
Which came first the Adventure or the Campaign; How to pull those one shots together
Hook, Line, and Sinker; Useful plot hooks gaurenteed to get your players heading in the right direction
Trapped in a trap; Understanding traps and when to use them
Rules rules everywhere and not a drop to drink; Helpful guides to help you understand those vague rarely used rules for when they inevitably come up
Preperation N; What to do when your players go in a direction you didn't plan for
Follow the yellow Brick road; How do deal with the munchkin in your group
May the gods kneal before me; For when your ready to make the epic leap
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catavarie
Well I have to say that a general chat forum I feel is a good thing. Afterall we might attract people who may not be quite as fervent about GMing as we are, but would still like to get a bit of insight to add to their GMing style. And really thats what a general board could do for us. I realize that it can also very quickly disolve into a post appocolyptic flamewar. However if we try to be too specific we might end up driving potential members away in fear that they have no thoughts on any of the specific ideas.
Also, I feel that the GMing Advice could be better broken down into subcategories. for instance:
First Time GMs and GMing for Beginers; A good place to start for starting GMs
World Building Techniques; Helpful tips on how to create your own settings
Which came first the Adventure or the Campaign; How to pull those one shots together
Hook, Line, and Sinker; Useful plot hooks gaurenteed to get your players heading in the right direction
Trapped in a trap; Understanding traps and when to use them
Rules rules everywhere and not a drop to drink; Helpful guides to help you understand those vague rarely used rules for when they inevitably come up
Preperation N; What to do when your players go in a direction you didn't plan for
Follow the yellow Brick road; How do deal with the munchkin in your group
May the gods kneal before me; For when your ready to make the epic leap
Just a few thoughts I had.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Remember, the draft above is a very rough one, and will likely require some heavy modifications. Most of those sections will need sub-forums. But it was midnight when I was typing, so I didn't feel like going into more detail than I had to.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
That's a great start on the forum set up. We can keep leshing it out now and see if we need anything extra Ilike the detail Catavarie just did).
I'm not sure if mod status can be assgined to only specific forums. Another question for the Cat(TM). I would think that it would be more general and that we may just have to assign people to specificly forums. That might be better anyways incase someone neds to fill in in another part of the board when someone is gone on vacation, takes a leave of absence, or has a computer meltdown
A general forum is a good idea. Some people just like to banter more and this would be the place to send them. That way people don't completely hijack a thread. It way seem odd that a site aimed more at GM's would need this, but I believe it to be a mere fact of human nature. And if that's how we build traffic in the long run then I'm cool with that. The real isue, as stated, is how do we handle discussion and flamewars/trolling. What we need is a set of rules, posted for people to read, tht re clear and easy to understand so that no one has an excuse (Sorry, my business manager experience is comming through here). We need to set (or not set if the case may be) what limits we will have on:
1. Language
2. Religion
3. Politics
4. Trolling
5. Flaming other posters
6. ???
I'm sure there is more. One way is the ENWorld way. It works, is easy to follow, and has served this site well. This community could be an example for all we know. Without these rules some of us might have even bounced off of each other over some post on religion, politics, etc.
The down size is that the rules are restrictive for some but more importantly is already done here, and we might want to be different from here to make the GMF more unique. GMs might like discussing adult content like real world religious or political aplications in there games. Or that ould be a huge can-o-worms that will just cause endless mod nightmares. I honestly don't know.
Another way is to allow more flexibility but govern it with strict limits, guidlines, and strictly mod the population to insure no one goes to far. The Metal-Archives does this well. It's a place to discuss metal music and really let you hair down, but a rougher ride for people who make silly posts because they get shot down - by the mods and the members. This style has it points, but it is also rough on new poster if they are not carefull - Which is something we would want to avoid. Again, I don't know. Just throwing out options.
Important questions to consider. What we decide sets the whole tone of the new site.
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapida
Having so many subforums could be intimidating for someone new to the site. Streamlining it some wouldn't hurt.
Yes, but it'll help keep the site organized, since you'll know exactly where to post something. And it's actually a lot simpler than many gaming forums I've seen. Streamlining it a little won't hurt, but a wealth of sub-forums will help people stay focused in each area.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
I think we should also add a Links & Utilities Section, for things like die rollers and NPC generators. That would only need to be a minor section though, and would only need one or two people to admin.
As for NC's concerns about Mods on vacation, any extra slack can be picked up by CE, which is part of the reason I suggested he be given Mod status in all sections. He won't have to do too much in any section, but he can help pick up the slack and make sure the site stays cohesive.
I am of the opinion that we need to have some kind of regulation on any General Forums we put up. They'd be nice to have, which is why I suggested them, but we need to avoid them becoming the main focus of the site at all costs. If people start only coming back to post in that section, then we'll have lost our purpose as a site meant to help GMs, and just become a chat room. I don't want that, and I don't think anyone else does either.
We need a plan of recruiting. Small membership is all well and good, but to thrive we need more people.
I think that in terms of strictness, we need to strike a balance. It should be fine to say something like "ass", since that's a pretty minor offence, but I think we should avoid it turning into an adults-only site. As for things like religion, I think you should be able to menition your own, or say how it affects your gaming (something many forums won't let you do), but insulting someone based on a racial, religious, or cultural basis deserves an outright suspension, if not ban. I think we should try to keep politics away as much as possible. Since you're all gamers posting on a gaming forum, most of you, including me, probably lean more to the left, but I don't want to know your preferences. Minor flame wars need to be put out before they get out of hand. One of the main reasons I rarely post on the WotC boards anymore is that the Mods there generally sit back until things have really gotten out of hand, then swoop in a apply blame to everyone who ever posted on the thread. Not cool, or effective.
Last point, how private do we make the Council Forums? Do we block all viewing access to non-councilors, or just posting? Or do we allow everyone to post, but only give Councilors the ability to vote? On the one hand, it'd be nice to have some privacy and exclusivity in our plots for world domina-, er, forum topics, but on the other hand it'd be nice to let members express their views. Maybe a "Lobby" section, where we post any ideas we want comments on, and where members can petition and question? This would be the one part of the Council Forums regular members could access, and would allow us to discuss things exclusively but still receive needed input.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
I think we should also add a Links & Utilities Section, for things like die rollers and NPC generators. That would only need to be a minor section though, and would only need one or two people to admin.
That's a great idea. Of course I have no idea how to do that so I don't know how difficult it is.
Quote:
As for NC's concerns about Mods on vacation, any extra slack can be picked up by CE, which is part of the reason I suggested he be given Mod status in all sections. He won't have to do too much in any section, but he can help pick up the slack and make sure the site stays cohesive.
I ran through the admin functions and we can assign mod status to users for specif forums. So that will work. Giving CE full access works to cover all loose ends and extras. Plus it's a nice perk for the founder
Plus Cat and myself have admin functions so we can also help out if needed.
Quote:
I am of the opinion that we need to have some kind of regulation on any General Forums we put up. They'd be nice to have, which is why I suggested them, but we need to avoid them becoming the main focus of the site at all costs. If people start only coming back to post in that section, then we'll have lost our purpose as a site meant to help GMs, and just become a chat room. I don't want that, and I don't think anyone else does either.
We just need to define the basic rule then to know when someone crosses the line of participating member to "loitering". The rest of the councils thoughts would be good to know on this.
Quote:
We need a plan of recruiting. Small membership is all well and good, but to thrive we need more people.
I think this will be tough. Advertising costs money, something we don't have. Free advertising (Spam) will get shot down quickly. So I'm not even sure of the proper approach for this.
One thing I would suggest, is that once we are up and running, we spread out and visit some of our other favorite forums with good links or banners in our signatures - and just participate there also.Maybe post a link when someone requests help or information that we have on the site. Also, GM's that see a cool banner or link to a GM members site may be inclined to clink on and see what's up. Before we do that, however, we will want the site going enough with some cool and useful threads to get their attention, that way they will want to come back. Marketing will get them in the door, but substance and quality will get them to stay.
Gah... I sound like a text book
Quote:
I think that in terms of strictness, we need to strike a balance. It should be fine to say something like "ass", since that's a pretty minor offence, but I think we should avoid it turning into an adults-only site. As for things like religion, I think you should be able to menition your own, or say how it affects your gaming (something many forums won't let you do), but insulting someone based on a racial, religious, or cultural basis deserves an outright suspension, if not ban. I think we should try to keep politics away as much as possible. Since you're all gamers posting on a gaming forum, most of you, including me, probably lean more to the left, but I don't want to know your preferences. Minor flame wars need to be put out before they get out of hand. One of the main reasons I rarely post on the WotC boards anymore is that the Mods there generally sit back until things have really gotten out of hand, then swoop in a apply blame to everyone who ever posted on the thread. Not cool, or effective.
Some basic rules would cover that. We should have an easily identifiable slogan(s) to these rules to keep it simple. Like ENWorlds "Don't say something that you wouldn't say to your Grandma." I'm not saying we need to go that far, but as a rule slogan that is great. Not only is it easy for all members to remember, but it also became a saying here: "Don't make Eric's Grandma mad!"
Agreed on the politics. That is just a debacle waiting to happen. And the flamewars need to be stomped out quickly.
Quote:
Last point, how private do we make the Council Forums? Do we block all viewing access to non-councilors, or just posting? Or do we allow everyone to post, but only give Councilors the ability to vote? On the one hand, it'd be nice to have some privacy and exclusivity in our plots for world domina-, er, forum topics, but on the other hand it'd be nice to let members express their views. Maybe a "Lobby" section, where we post any ideas we want comments on, and where members can petition and question? This would be the one part of the Council Forums regular members could access, and would allow us to discuss things exclusively but still receive needed input.
I like the lobby idea. It would be like this sites forum for questions about the forums or the GMF. Complaints and suggestions. I like the name to. It has character. IMHO.
As for the council forums, we could block the actual forum if we want, but could run the rest of the discussion through the lobby. The nice thing about that is that only people who participate enough to visit the lobby would be involved in the sites discussion while drive-by veiwers wouldn't be voting on things that they probably don't care about, thus deluting the views of involved members.
Hope that made since. Holiday weeks in the transportation business is a killer, and I'm waaay behind on my sleepy time...
It is possible to get specific admin status over specific forums. (I am a specific admin on my WoW guild website as the Mage Class Leader)
I wouldn't warry about flamewars or spammers. As admins, we will be able to remove such posts.
I don't know about admin status, but on the forum we are using now Mod status can be assigned to a specific forum. Catavarie could answr this question better since he built the site and added all the details up to this point.
I understand giving responsibility to certine CMs for specific forums, I don't understand why we would limit the moderator status to one forum. It would seem simpler to simply have overall mod status and have responsibility for one (or a few) forums.
But aside from that I fear we are focusing to much on where and how omni-power is to be given and not enough on the real reason for the GMF getting its own website, the people. I think maybe we should hold off disscusion of power until the more important things are taken care of.
I also think we should tread carefully where restrictions are involved.
"The IBM lesson is important to us. Eveyday we ask ourselves, 'Have we become them?'"
- Richest man in the world.
__________________ Well, that was fun
"Things arn't as pretty on the inside..."
Spoiler:
"Xen is basically the GMF's goodwill ambassador to the Far Realm" HightCloak
Location: In the very bowels of Hell (A.K.A. Chicago)
Posts: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xen155
I understand giving responsibility to certine CMs for specific forums, I don't understand why we would limit the moderator status to one forum. It would seem simpler to simply have overall mod status and have responsibility for one (or a few) forums.
But aside from that I fear we are focusing to much on where and how omni-power is to be given and not enough on the real reason for the GMF getting its own website, the people. I think maybe we should hold off disscusion of power until the more important things are taken care of.
I also think we should tread carefully where restrictions are involved.
"The IBM lesson is important to us. Eveyday we ask ourselves, 'Have we become them?'"
- Richest man in the world.
Agreed, but if we don't have the site, it'll be harder to attract new members. On the other hand, we need the members to make it worth it. Hmmmm...
Mod status isn't really all that big of an issue, but it'd be nice if we can have site management pinned down early, so we can hit the ground running.
I think right now everyone needs to go to their local GMs for recruitment, and maybe we can start setting up recruitment threads on some forums. However, the recruitment threads will only really be useful when we can give people a reason to stay, so we need to start off with a bang.
Mod status in all sections could work, but I think it'd be easier if we were each concentrated on one or two jobs and not cutting into each other's turf. If whoevers running the forums wants to let something slide, I don't want to get into an argument with them over what is or isn't acceptable. That can be reserved for the Council Forum. But it sends the wrong message if I go over someones head to punish an offending poster.
As for strictness, this is something we're going to need to have a debate on. I'm in favor of maybe something a little looser than ENWorld or WotC, but that's because we seem to have a fairly mature crowd here. But I'm of the firm belief, that religious and social discussions must stay at the most basic level, and politics shouldn't be included at all. The reason I say religion should be included is because religious confrontation is one of the biggest problems for GMs today. I don't want to tell a GM who is having a problem with one of his players' religious parents that he can't ask for advice on a forum designed for that purpose.
Tommorow, I should have time to post an updated site layout. I plan on doing this every few days. The discussion we've got going here is good, but I'd like to pick up the pace. Ideally, we should have most if not all of these issues resolved before we start, so that we can have a smooth start, something neccessary if we want to attract new members.
According to this test, I am a Lawful Good Gnome Paladin with the following ability scores:
Str. 10
Dex. 15
Con. 16
Int. 15
Wis. 10
Cha. 12
The test said it, not me. :\
Mod status in all sections could work, but I think it'd be easier if we were each concentrated on one or two jobs and not cutting into each other's turf. If whoevers running the forums wants to let something slide, I don't want to get into an argument with them over what is or isn't acceptable. That can be reserved for the Council Forum. But it sends the wrong message if I go over someones head to punish an offending poster.
Hence responsibility for one or two forums, but the ability to moderate as nessescity demands in others.
My advice for attracting people is offer something usefull and new, or at least easier access to something tried and true. Recruitment threads, though usefull and probobly nessecary, cannot just be recruitment threads, we need a reason for someone to develop an intrest to the thread to begin with. Perhaps new game designs or outlines from the think tanks here.
__________________ Well, that was fun
"Things arn't as pretty on the inside..."
Spoiler:
"Xen is basically the GMF's goodwill ambassador to the Far Realm" HightCloak
ENTROPY
Last edited by Xen155; 17th November 2006 at 07:15 AM..
I have a good idea, similar to Cataverie's "Create This" thread. Once or twice a week, someone posts a map they've made. Then we have a contest to see who can make the best dungeon out of it.
I'm thinking that Cat's "Create This" project and something like this could be a good part of increasing interest when we get our site. If we have various contests, it might give people more incentive to post and participate.
I forget where I saw you say this CotDS but it is a good idea.
__________________ Well, that was fun
"Things arn't as pretty on the inside..."
Spoiler:
"Xen is basically the GMF's goodwill ambassador to the Far Realm" HightCloak
That's a great idea. Of course I have no idea how to do that so I don't know how difficult it is.
I ran through the admin functions and we can assign mod status to users for specif forums. So that will work. Giving CE full access works to cover all loose ends and extras. Plus it's a nice perk for the founder
Plus Cat and myself have admin functions so we can also help out if needed.
See previous Post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcloak
We just need to define the basic rule then to know when someone crosses the line of participating member to "loitering". The rest of the councils thoughts would be good to know on this.
If someones actions on the boards become disruptive or destructive then that is not a good thing. But if someone is just posting only in the "lobby" forum and not partaking in the other forums I don't feel that would be a bad thing particularly if they are being helpful to others in the lobby area. We won't know the answers to every question out there and a second opinion is always a good thing. And well we also don't want to get a reputation of a place where we censor people just because we feel their inputs is irrelevent or off topic. Threads get derailed. Thats the nature of all Message Boards. We even derail threads ourselves here. If it becomes a constant problem with one individual constantly derailing threads then thats another thing altogether and should be addressed. But if somone never leaves the Lobby forum thats fine, because odds are that they will tell a freind or two about thsi gr4eat Web site for GMs and they might visit the other areas, but if we bump the person then he's going to tell his friends and then we may end up with no one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcloak
I think this will be tough. Advertising costs money, something we don't have. Free advertising (Spam) will get shot down quickly. So I'm not even sure of the proper approach for this.
One thing I would suggest, is that once we are up and running, we spread out and visit some of our other favorite forums with good links or banners in our signatures - and just participate there also.Maybe post a link when someone requests help or information that we have on the site. Also, GM's that see a cool banner or link to a GM members site may be inclined to clink on and see what's up. Before we do that, however, we will want the site going enough with some cool and useful threads to get their attention, that way they will want to come back. Marketing will get them in the door, but substance and quality will get them to stay.
Gah... I sound like a text book
We could always sponser a gaming podcast, or even host our own. That way we could get our voices out there and build an audience quite quickly. So long as our content is good and our quality is high. Any podcasts are recorded through the use of Skype or Vitrilo and then edited together to sound better later on. And maybe even do some "live shows" at a few gaming cons around North America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcloak
Some basic rules would cover that. We should have an easily identifiable slogan(s) to these rules to keep it simple. Like ENWorlds "Don't say something that you wouldn't say to your Grandma." I'm not saying we need to go that far, but as a rule slogan that is great. Not only is it easy for all members to remember, but it also became a saying here: "Don't make Eric's Grandma mad!"
A simple way of deciding what is appropriate language is to follow the FCC 7 words that are never to be aired. If you don't know what 7 words I'm talking about check the Wiki entry here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcloak
Agreed on the politics. That is just a debacle waiting to happen. And the flamewars need to be stomped out quickly.
I think this should go without saying but, In Game politics I think should be allowable. Discussing the different political factions of a Campaign world for instance can help people to either better understand that setting or maybe even help someone to flesh out their own homebrew world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcloak
I like the lobby idea. It would be like this sites forum for questions about the forums or the GMF. Complaints and suggestions. I like the name to. It has character. IMHO.
As for the council forums, we could block the actual forum if we want, but could run the rest of the discussion through the lobby. The nice thing about that is that only people who participate enough to visit the lobby would be involved in the sites discussion while drive-by veiwers wouldn't be voting on things that they probably don't care about, thus deluting the views of involved members.
Perhaps a Private forum for council members only with a sister forum where we post a log of the Council forum discussions and let the members reply and vote on any major items that come up.
Originally Posted by Chosen of the Dark Sun
I have a good idea, similar to Cataverie's "Create This" thread. Once or twice a week, someone posts a map they've made. Then we have a contest to see who can make the best dungeon out of it.
I'm thinking that Cat's "Create This" project and something like this could be a good part of increasing interest when we get our site. If we have various contests, it might give people more incentive to post and participate.
I forget where I saw you say this CotDS but it is a good idea.
I guess this explains the "." thread you started, Xen.
I have a crazy thought. Maybe we could offer members private forums for their own games. They could buy a forum for some cheap price and then their group could use the forums for their own game discussion. Or some such thing. I might pay $5 or $10 for a forum to gather game information on my world, for my players to see and discuss out of game content. Kind of what we have here, but on a smaller level. I'm not quite sure how or if it would work, but it sounds nifty. Then again, that could be the grey goose talking...
I have a crazy thought. Maybe we could offer members private forums for their own games. They could buy a forum for some cheap price and then their group could use the forums for their own game discussion. Or some such thing. I might pay $5 or $10 for a forum to gather game information on my world, for my players to see and discuss out of game content. Kind of what we have here, but on a smaller level. I'm not quite sure how or if it would work, but it sounds nifty. Then again, that could be the grey goose talking...
That would require quite a large amount of programming and I'm not sure how to implement it. Of course I think we would have to make our PBP system outstanding and with features that no other PBP boards have. The other thing is how often do you pay? Monthly? Annually? Semi-Annually? One time only? If we could implement all teh functionality I would like to have in our PBP boards then it could be a possibility. Just going to take awhile before then. But a good way to make a little income for the foundation.
On a side note, has anyone thought about accually registering the GMF as a "business" of anysort? Such as a Company, corporation, or even a Non-Profit orginization? If we want to be able to make money its something we really should look into.
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