Go Back   EN World D&D / RPG News > Hosted Sites > Personal & Hosted Forums > Personal/Hosted Forums > The Battle of All Alignments > General Discussion

Notices

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5th March 2008, 08:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
4e Battle of Good & Evil - Rules and OOC Discussion

Welcome to the 4e Battle of Good & Evil! The purpose of this forum is to determine whether Good or Evil reigns supreme in the 4e universe by having all the known 4e monsters engage each other in gladiatorial combat. This is a test of the 4e tactical rules, not an attempt at a 4e PbP RPG. You can participate by conducting each monster’s strategy. I will do all the rolling and let you know the results.

Sources: I will be using all the monsters from the following sources -

Follow this link for monster stats.

Follow this link for sample PC stats.

Battle Rules:

Almost all of the unaligned monsters will be helping Good to defeat the numerous Evil monsters. There are an equal number of monster types on each side.

The battle will start with the following participants:

Good: Eladrin Ranger + Halfling Paladin + Half-Elf Warlock

Evil: Tiefling Wizard + 4 Kobold Minions + Kobold Skirmisher

If at any time all monsters on one side are dead (not just unconscious), then that side loses the Battle of Good & Evil.


Gladiatorial Combat:

A monster is defeated in the arena under the following circumstances:
It dies or is destroyed
It is unconscious
It leaves the arena for any reason
It is convinced or forced to fight for the opposing side

Any dead or destroyed monsters (and their equipment) still in the arena will be teleported out of the arena to avoid a pile of dead bodies from becoming a terrain obstacle. If a monster is defeated but is only unconscious, it stays in the arena. Once a monster is defeated, a player may opt to have a new monster or monsters enter into the arena to take its place. I will give options to each player for how they can replace their losses. The replacements will be more powerful if the player takes the risk and waits for multiple monsters on his or her side to be defeated.

Any powers or effects caused by the defeated monster will continue until the duration expires. The new monster can choose to use a move action to teleport into the arena, or it can move normally into the arena from its designated side, but it must do one or the other before doing anything else. It may ready its equipment outside of the arena in preparation for combat, but it cannot use equipment, cast spells, use abilities, or do any other standard action outside of the arena to prepare for combat inside the arena.

Each player secretly designates one of the monsters on its side as a "main opponent". If a main opponent is defeated, a player must enter replacements immediately and must designate a new main opponent from one of the new replacements. If at any time during the combat there are five consecutive rounds where neither main opponent has received damage (damage to other monsters is irrelevant), the combat is considered a draw. The two main opponents are teleported away and both players must enter replacements as described above. All monsters that are not main opponents remain in the arena and continue to fight.

Arena Terrain:

An excel file is attached below that you can use to represent the arena.

The arena is a 120 foot square area (24 squares long, 24 squares wide) with a ceiling 120 feet high. It is bounded by walls except on the east and west sides, where there are two walls of force. Most of the arena is solid stone going 120 feet down, with the exception of semi-loose soil in a 20 foot strip along the southern wall of the arena and a 120 pit filled to the top with water in a 20 foot strip along the northern wall. The light is sufficient for sight throughout the arena, but it is not natural sunlight and is not bright enough to affect creatures who are sensitive to light. Of course spells cast during combat can change these conditions. The walls are superior masonry (Climb DC 25).

For purposes of identifying the positions of each combatant, we will need a coordinate system. The southwest corner of each arena will be considered zero feet North and zero feet East, or 0N0E. The southwest corner of each monster’s position will be used as a reference, so any size monster in the southwest corner of the arena will have its position noted as 0N0E, but if the monster is in the northeast corner of the arena, its position would be 115N115E if its size is medium or smaller, but 110N110E if the monster is large, 105N105E if it is huge, etc.

Good will be watching the combat from the west side or between 0N0E and 115N0E, while Evil will be watching from the east side or between 0N120E and 115N120E. Monsters can teleport into the arena anywhere between the north and south walls, but they must teleport into an empty space at zero elevation (0Z) where they are not initially squeezing to fit into the space.

Other terrain features of the arena:

1) The southern 20 foot strip of semi-loose soil runs 120 feet deep. On the surface of the soil is enough grass to use for entangle and plant growth-type spells.

2) The SW and SE corners of the arena have two trees growing from the soil. The trees are 10 feet in diameter and have a climb DC of 15. The tree trunks are 100 feet tall, but smaller branches covered with leaves extend from the top of the trunk, forming a 20 foot cube on the two corners of the arena. These branches can support creatures of large size or smaller and the leaves provide concealment.

3) Running down the center of the arena is a 20 foot strip of adamantine at a 20 foot elevation (1 foot thick), supported by 1 foot diameter adamantime pillars at 100N50E, 100N70E, 60N50E, 60N70E, 20N50E and 20N70E. The floor underneath this roof, also made of adamantine that is 10 feet thick, is the victory zone. If one main opponent remains (at least partially) in the victory zone at 0Z for 4 rounds without the other main opponent staying (at least partially) in the victory zone at 0Z for one full round, the first main opponent wins and other main opponent is teleported away. If a draw condition and a victory condition occur at the same time, the victory condition takes precedence. If a draw condition occurs after a main opponent has been in the victory zone at 0 elevation for 3 rounds, the player for that main opponent can choose to accept or negate the draw.

4) Each side can watch the battle behind their respective walls of force and make decisions based on what they observe inside the arena. To leave the arena, a combatant must tap on the wall of force where his side is watching the battle three times in succession as a free action. Frightened and panicked opponents will remember to tap, but they may pick the wrong side of the arena (they will not run past an enemy they fear to get to the right side). Confused opponents will not remember that they need to tap.

5) If monsters inside the arena are invisible, monsters outside the arena can track their locations on a radar screen. Thus monsters entering the arena know an invisible enemy's location, at least for one round.


House Rules:

We will be using what we know of 4e D&D rules (including all updates) to conduct the arena combats.

Use this link for a list of 4e conditions.

The following house rules are in effect:

An encounter is defined as 10 rounds.
Every monster except minions gets a second wind once per 10 rounds.
Every monster (including minions) starts with 1 AP and can gain another one if they survive 20 rounds.
Every monster can use an untrained Wis check to heal unconscious allies if that ally has not used its second wind.
The dazed condition is amended to allow only one action in a round.


Participation:

You can participate in the 4e Battle of Good & Evil by posting on the 4e Sign Up Thread. Simply state which alignment you would like to play and wait for my acknowledgement.

Thanks for reading and I hope you join in the fun!
Attached Files
File Type: xls Arena.xls (15.5 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Gansk; 5th March 2008 at 08:57 AM..
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2008, 06:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Do you think Riardon's careful shot is supposed to be only 1d10 and not 1d10+4? Essentially, it becomes a pseudo Power Attack?
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2008, 07:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Yes, people have mentioned that it is an error on the sheet, and everytime I used it, it was 1d10.
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 08:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
There has been some discussion on the 4e forum that the definition of concealment and invisibility no longer require extra rolls for "miss chance" and are just flat modifiers to AC (+2 and +5 respectively).

Based on that information, I am changing the rules for the concealment, invisiblilty, and blind conditions.

Concealment: You get +2 to AC. You can use Stealth as a minor action to hide, thus becoming invisible to those who cannot beat the Stealth roll with their Perception roll. Passive perception is a free action where the creature takes 10 on the roll. Active perception is a minor action where the creature rolls d20. Each 2 squares of distance subtracts 1 from the Perception roll. You cannot hide against adjacent creatures. Once you attack, you become visible but still have concealment.

Invisible: You cannot be targeted by ranged or opportunity attacks. You get +5 AC vs. melee attacks. You have combat advantage on all of your attacks.

Blind: You cannot make ranged or opportunity attacks. -5 to hit on all melee attacks. All attacks against you have combat advantage.

Last edited by Gansk; 29th March 2008 at 09:01 PM..
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 09:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
You still need cover or concealment to hide using Stealth, right?
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 09:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Yes.
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2008, 09:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Some tidbits have been released about the delay and ready actions.

Readied actions that use an action as the trigger are immediate reactions - they do not interrupt the triggered action. After the readied action occurs, your initiative is changed to one before the creature that used the triggered action.

Readied actions can still interrupt movement - a creature can appear in a doorway, get blasted by a magic missile, and continue moving.

Delay actions cannot extend benefits - the benefit still expires at the original initiative. They also cannot delay when a harmful effect takes place - that also occurs at the original initiative.
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2008, 04:34 AM   #8 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Okay, I picked up Keep on the Shadowfell. I want to run a 4E game more than ever!!
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2008, 09:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Really, is the module good? I know a lot of spoilers, so you can give me all the details. Are the first two encounters almost identical (at least thematically)?
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2008, 03:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Yes, they're very similar, on the same map even. No minions the second time, however. The first encounter has 5 minions, two dragonshields, and a slinger. The second one has 3 dragonshields, a wyrmpriest, and a skirmisher. I quite honestly see no problem in the similarity of the encounters. It makes sense from a plot perspective and the creatures are different enough with different tactics to make the encounter interesting. I doubt the PCs would even remark along the lines of the module designer trying to gain a second encounter for "free", which is what I see the complaint alluding to. It's not, it's well designed within the plot.

Major Spoiler I haven't seen posted elsewhere:
Spoiler:
There's a spy within the town. The first ambush is a set of kobold brigands. The second ambush is clearly targeting the PCs. They are, according to the module "very disciplined" and have specific tactics to maximize their advantage and the terrain. From a DM's perspective, I can see the PC's overhearing the kobolds during the battle talking about "These are the ones! Get the wizard first!" Assuming they understand draconic, which the kobolds might not realize.


I haven't read all the way through, but my first impressions are good. The paper is somewhat thin, it's like a Dragon magazine, but the fact that it's all full color offsets that complete. The cover is also thin, however, and I'm not happy about that part. The maps are awesome, though, and so far I love the design of the adventure.

There's extra space devoted to rules, which I understand given the fact that the module comes out before the rules.

All in all, I'm sold. I want to switch to 4E yesterday. I won't playing 3.5, but I'm certainly not wanting to DM it anymore. With kids and a full time job, I just don't have the time to waste creating bad guys for 3 rounds of combat in 3.5 (my main 3.5 gripe).
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2008, 07:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I hear you there! When the PC's are 15th level, it's not three rounds, it's one!
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2008, 08:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
My PC's are 16th-18th level, but I spend a fair amount of time on bad guys to ensure they last more than 1 round. But, that's a heck of a lot of work for what amounts to little or no gain.
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 04:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lomita, CA
Posts: 4,540
PJSlavner Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Send a message via AIM to PJSlavner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansk
I hear you there! When the PC's are 15th level, it's not three rounds, it's one!
Hey, that happened yesterday only because our party was prepared for exactly what we faced, and two of the vampires missed their Reflex saves against sunburst. The last vampire lasted several rounds three of the four times we encountered him.
PJSlavner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 06:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I've been reading some people's reviews and I think some comments are plain silly or "who cares". Although I agree that the module shouldn't refer to the Player's Handbook, that's more of a minor inconvenience than anything and it has nothing at all to do with KotS and a general editing blip by WotC. Obviously, the module was pushed up to precede the rules whereas it was most likely originally planned to coincide with the rules. I also bet that there are several basic character stats in the core rules that could be used for townspeople (one person claimed that as a 'big" negative, which I think is silly; I mean, c'mon just use some standard DCs).

Another big plus which I hope they continue was several pages on NPC reactions to specific questions. While some people may literally read them off the pages, others can use them for RP guidelines. The module even provides a suggestion to do it either way the DM feels comfortable. Outside of, say, other DM's on the RttToEE forum I have never seen such advice (i.e. the NPC reactions) in such detail.

If 4E saves me 90% of my time on working up NPC stats and such and solves all my problems with spells (stupid Vancian magic), metamagic (more stupid Vancian magic), and items, I'm really happy to track marks and ongoing effects every round. In fact, I am seeing some potential in getting the players involved in tracking that stuff, which they wouldn't have a need to do in 3.5e.
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 08:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Well, it is probably a valid criticism to point out that they provided a town without equipment prices. The customer would have benefited if they simply put out the module at the exact same time as the books, then omitted the quick start rules packet and charged less.

I'm glad they anticipated questions that might be given to the NPC's and suggested some answers. You're right, I haven't really seen that from a WotC module.
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 01:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lomita, CA
Posts: 4,540
PJSlavner Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Send a message via AIM to PJSlavner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansk
I'm glad they anticipated questions that might be given to the NPC's and suggested some answers. You're right, I haven't really seen that from a WotC module.
It has been common in Paizo adventures and in Dungeon adventures the last few years.
PJSlavner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 02:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I totally agree it's a valid criticism. I guess maybe I should clarify my perspective. I care less about whether the editing on the product is perfect and more about the adventure layout and the introduction to a 4E game. In both cases (so far), I think they exceeded my expectations. The layout is significantly better than Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, etc. (albeit with some editing-related issues like item prices and what those items are and references to the PHB). And, the feel for 4E is awesome; however, I am obviously somewhat jaded by the excerpts (especially magic item).

I made up my BBEG for the end of the RttToEE campaign (see spoiler) and it took me many hours. First, I had to decide what he would be, which was no easy task counting the sheer number of books I have. Then, working up the stats and magic items took me the longest time. While at some lower level of my consciousness I enjoyed the tweaking of numbers and items, it really was a waste of time. It makes it even more aggravating knowing I could've spent all that time for 5 minutes of "fun" as he gets popped in the first round. Sure, the players might have a load of "fun", but not equivalent to the time spent.

I have a saying about parenting, "It's all about the kids." Just about everything you do when being a parent is with an eye towards your kids, making them more happy, protecting for them, providing for them, etc. Well, in D&D it's not all about the players.

Spoiler:
Unariq VolTalsimol, the first First, a CR25 Ulitharid (from Lords of Madness).
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2008, 04:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Has anyone heard from EvilHalfling?
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2008, 04:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
Battle of All Alignments
 
Gansk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,968
Gansk Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
I've seen him posting around in the other forums.
Gansk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th May 2008, 04:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
Evil Hatrack
 
Infiniti2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 9,254
Infiniti2000 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Is he a daddy yet?
__________________
Hva' fanden? Får vi en orkan?
Infiniti2000 is offline   Reply With Quote

EN Marketplace Featured Listings
WereDragon Magazine Issue #1!


Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



These are the 100 most-searched-for thread tags
Search Tag Cloud
3.5 3.5 still lives here 3.xe 3e 3rd edition 4e 4th edition action rpg adventure aquerra art artificer blizzard bring back nightfall! build campaign cartography cats & dogs rule! character cheese class codex hiveous combat computer games conversational cosmology cydra d&di d20 modern dark sun diablo3 dming dragon dragon magazine dungeon eberron errata feats game game aid games gleemax problems greyhawk gsl gurps hive hivemind hiveocracy homebrew homebrewed homebrew setting house rules humor hunting season is now! legacy legacy thread lorraine williams maps massachusetts meta miniatures monsters ninja'd hive nuclear aoe ftw! od&d off-topic oots optimization order of the stick pathfinder plots powers race races recharge power retro clone rules smilies attack sporked hive ssoass sterich stick hive story hour swordmage tags tale of the twin suns the planes traps true20 turkey sammich unconventional thought wall-e warlock weird wiki worldbuilding world of kulan wotc wyre ymca

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Site Contents © 2008 ENWorld
PHP Ajax Multimedia Web Framework © 2008 Digital Media Graphix
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0