Aug 30th Adventure III

[Grimhelm]

Okay, I am getting excited to play! Who all can come? Will split pea with sausage be acceptable to everyone? I make it from scratch. Yum.

[Fyrestryke]

I'll be out of town this weekend as it's Labor Day weekend. Wish I could make it. I won't be able to unless you guys wanna push back a week or something. But, that will conflict with already scheduled boardgames...

[Grimhelm]

Originally Posted by Fyrestryke

I'll be out of town this weekend as it's Labor Day weekend. Wish I could make it. I won't be able to unless you guys wanna push back a week or something. But, that will conflict with already scheduled boardgames...

Sorry, but the schedule must remain consistent. You knew about it. You made the choice. We lose, girl wins. We understand. But we don't like it!

[APewty]

I can't make it.

Last week that's all I said. It appears there is a problem I can't get around. Since the hospital has closed and things have changed, I've said that I might take another job. What I didn't say is that my wife is looking, and has in fact taken a second job.

I was under the delusion that she would work only one day a week-end and that it would be Sunday. So far, she works both days nearly every week-end. I can't get around having all three kids by myself and at least one is the kind that if I came and brought him, we'd never get anything done at the game table.

Thus it ends.

The only thing I can throw out, and I hesitate to do so, is that the opposite week-end I don't have any kids. If wifey works then, it doesn't matter. I certainly don't expect anyone to change the schedule but I would be remiss to not mention every possibility that I've thought of.

I apologize for these developments. Had I been able to foresee them I would have communicated said future. I'd like to thank everyone, including those I've not met, for the opportunity. It was too brief indeed.

[Grimhelm]

Well, if this many people need a schedule change, we can certainly entertain it. I, for one, don't care what weekend we play on so long as it can be fairly consistent...

The game is cancelled this week anyway. No one can make it.

[InzeladunMaster]

The alternative weekend is when I have all my children, and having them all there creates too much stress for me to run a game, plus I usually use that weekend to do family things.

I just have throw my hands up in despair at this point. It seemed like a lot of people wanted me to run a game (see Games again, again and RPGs ?!?) and based on that feedback I started a game. Yet none of the people who have asked me to run games again has been able or willing to show up!

Now we are back to where the last game ended because no one (again like last time, usually through no fault of their own) can (or wants to) attend.

If the game just sucks, I need to know. Once again I feel like I am devoting a lot of time to something that no one wants, needs or perhaps even appreciates.

Honestly, at this point I am ready to just throw in the towel.

I start my PhD program next week, so my time is going to be at a premium, and I really am not going to have time to waste on constantly cancelled games and unappreciated effort - even though everyone has perfectly legitimate excuses (I certainly cannot fault APewty, and he is awesome at the game, btw). Right now the excuses are good, but the last game started out that way until the excuses eventually became, "well, I got to clean my house" and the like.

I am starting to feel like a card-carrying idiot, eagerly believing everyone is as enthused at the new game as Mark and I are - but now it seems like it is only me and Mark who are enthused, and possibly the only ones who ever were enthused.

[Grimhelm]

While I must vociferously disagree with IM's belief that his game must suck, I must also feel a certain empathy for him. All I can hope is that people start to come again soon. I know that Chris has expressed a desire and willingness to come. Alex, too, wants to come, but his brother had surgery and is being picked up in Florida to live with him.

None of the reasons given were bad. I understand. I refuse to be disheartened by it, however. At the same time, if it continues, I will actively look for new players to take the place of people who can't come. I do not say this as a threat. I only say it because I want to play.

Please let us know in this thread if you sincerely believe you can come on a regular basis starting in two weeks. Thank you.

Mark

[APewty]

Originally Posted by InzeladunMaster

The alternative weekend is when I have all my children, and having them all there creates too much stress for me to run a game, plus I usually use that weekend to do family things.

For this reason alone I really hated to mention changing the week-end. I don't remember the context but we had discussed that you had more than one child on the other week-ends. I can't imagine bringing my kids to a game session. I don't expect you to want to, let alone to actually do it. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't mentioned it...

I just have throw my hands up in despair at this point. It seemed like a lot of people wanted me to run a game (see Games again, again and RPGs ?!?) and based on that feedback I started a game. Yet none of the people who have asked me to run games again has been able or willing to show up!

Speaking for myself only, I fully intended to be at every session. I still had to support my wife in wanting to get this job. The main reason is she is thinking about doing it full time. Even so, the week-end is wrecked. Back to square one, do not collect $200.

If the game just sucks, I need to know. Once again I feel like I am devoting a lot of time to something that no one wants, needs or perhaps even appreciates.

I did not think the game sucked. To be completely honest, I was still getting back on my P&P gaming feet so there's some butterfly's on my part doing that and meeting new people, but I was still looking forward to it. I can also empathize with that feeling, having DM'd in my early years almost constantly. I don't remember as vividly as I used to, but I can still sort of remember putting many hours and effort into planning sessions, and people either not making it, or even if they made it, they spent more time picking their nose or searching the nearby house for other distractions than actually playing. I know DM'ing is tough. Anyone that hasn't done it has little idea how much work it requires, and (perhaps more importantly) how much concentration it takes to keep the game moving. It's very draining to run a several hour session. At least it was for me.

Honestly, at this point I am ready to just throw in the towel.

Been there, done that. Complete empathy from me. I hate I'm helping to cause this feeling.

I start my PhD program next week, so my time is going to be at a premium, and I really am not going to have time to waste on constantly cancelled games and unappreciated effort - even though everyone has perfectly legitimate excuses (I certainly cannot fault APewty, and he is awesome at the game, btw). Right now the excuses are good, but the last game started out that way until the excuses eventually became, "well, I got to clean my house" and the like.

I'll agree with you here. I toyed last session with getting a babysitter. I was expecting for her to clear Saturdays. It's not happening. I'm not willing to jerk you folks around. I'm throwing in the towel because I can see it's not going my way. But to play, whether it's me or someone else, including the players that have been there and want to be there (Grim, DM, Fyre) it still takes an enormous commitment that takes work to meet. This shouldn't be lightly given. Even more frustrating for me because, when I committed, I saw no problem. Initially due to the flooding, I take no call now. I was very happy knowing I had no conflicts of schedule. All the more reason I've not been happy with these changes of late.

I would say that, if others had been making the game then I would feel less badly about having to leave. It's a tough thing to realize after two sessions that you have 3-4 core players. There's a strong hint of a problem there. So I would have to agree with you here that it does seem odd that people wanting to come...haven't come.

I am starting to feel like a card-carrying idiot, eagerly believing everyone is as enthused at the new game as Mark and I are - but now it seems like it is only me and Mark who are enthused, and possibly the only ones who ever were enthused.

Again I can only speak for myself. I was very enthused. I usually don't step foot in game shops because I don't have the money, space, time or friends to even think about actually playing any of them. Less than 2.5 weeks ago, I was doing research and shopping for references, as well as brushing up on rules and thinking about character development. It's all dead now.

I can guarantee I was enthused.

In closing this reply, I can't say how ironic this has been. To find a game near home, almost by chance through the internet: To finally play as a player in a long term campaing has been something I've wanted to do for over 20 years. My last attempt was ill-fated. This time it seemed like destiny. A part of me is crushed. My wife says to look for another group that matches my free time. I said nothing. What can I say? I HAD found a group that was going to work very well. What's to keep the next one from "not matching my schedule"?

It seems to me that I am, after all, not destined to play this sort of a game. Even were I to win the lottery and quit my job, I would be leery to dive in again, fearing some unforseen circumstance that would keep me from fulfilling my obligation and desire.


Well, enough whining. I should hope that the world you have created will be populated next session. I would hope that someone is able to start coming. I actually hope that I am little missed. This would be a good thing and would signal that the world does not live or die by one person, as it shouldn't.

[Grimhelm]

Well, just so you know, APewty, we really enjoyed having you. We don't blame you. Situations change. In our hearts we don't blame anyone for having lives and problems. Yet the fact remains that we really want to play this game and can't seem to put anything together. And ironically, the people who have the most time (Bob and Craig) have no real desire to play.

It's just frackin' awful to get something going only to have everyone in the frackin' party bail on you. And, damn it all if I can't blame anyone. It is a weird situation. It is depressing.

But, we will perservere, even if we have to find totally new guys to play with us!

Good luck to you, APewty. We enjoyed your visits and looked forward to your input. Alas!

Mark

[Fyrestryke]

Apewty - You will definitely be missed. Even for only two sessions, you were a good friend and player and you will always remain a good friend. You're always welcome here even if we can't play face to face...

Vince - I am very enthused about the game. I was having a blast! I spent hours and hours working on Marah and I was really enjoying playing her. I've missed the last two sessions (the previous one and the one that was slated for this weekend). Both, I have missed due to long-standing plans that I had long before we restarted gaming. One was GenCon and the other is Labor Day weekend with my friends in St. Louis. Unfortunately for the game, both happened to be two weeks apart on game weeks. I do not have any other pre-planned events until October. I will endeavor to make the rest of the games short of emergencies or unforseen circumstances. Scrapping December (family get-togethers, work parties, etc.) would seem suitable to me since everyone has so much trouble that month.

Here's a schedule to 2009 (and personal conflicts I can forsee as of tonite)

August 30 (I'll be in St. Louis)
September 13 (I'm not sure about this day - It's my parents 30th Anniversary and I'll either need to play late or early depending on if we have a lunch-time party or a dinner-time party - probably dinner-time and I'd have to be out of gaming round 4pm)
September 27 (Hope Heritage Days - I'll be available around 2pm or 3pm)
October 11
October 25 (I have to be done by 7pm)
November 8
November 22
December 6
December 20
January 3

Anyways, I know the game fell apart before and we just got started and have hit some speedbumps... But, if we threw in the towel at every little hiccup, we'd never get anything accomplished...

As for the others attending. I know of at least three who really want to and have been legitimately tied up for all the sessions up to now.

[Grimhelm]

Originally Posted by Fyrestryke

Anyways, I know the game fell apart before and we just got started and have hit some speedbumps... But, if we threw in the towel at every little hiccup, we'd never get anything accomplished...

Unfortunately, this is really more of a trend than a hiccup. Again, I am not blaming anyone. I realize that all of these reasons are very important to people and that they are legitimate. However, the fact of the matter remains: People aren't coming to the games. We have basically cancelled two sessions in a row now. We have only played two out of four scheduled sessions (I am counting the day we played with Alex as hardly a game in itself). The reality is that after our last real get together, 6 weeks will have passed. This is extremely disappointing.

I would posit the following solutions:

Chris, are you obliged to go to Hope Heritage Days? (A glorified flea market)

Thormagni, are there alternate days you might be available?

As for Alex, he may be hit or miss anyway, so I am not going to count him, though I feel he would be a valuable member. As for Dave and Jason, they are welcome, but I never hear from them anymore...

Are there any other thoughts/solutions to this problem?

[thormagni]

Originally Posted by Grimhelm

Thormagni, are there alternate days you might be available?

Sure, there are alternate days. I don't know what might fit into everyone's schedule, but I would be open for a week night. Honestly, that would probably work best for me, since most of my weekends have been spent on I-65 back and forth to New Albany (as I am this weekend.)

Switching to another week would be a problem for me (and I guess for our crossover players,) as I plan to continue to run my games on the weeks I have been running them. (which is the "off week" from this game.) We've played hack-and-slash D&D, True20 modern crime and Mutants & Masterminds superheroes in the past few months.

As for Dave and Jason, they are welcome, but I never hear from them anymore...

Well, I can't speak for Dave and Jason. But I haven't heard them say anything about NOT wanting to play. I know Dave works every other weekend and Jason is still in training up in Marion for the next month and a half or so.

To be honest, I think I was probably more turned off by the "commitment" conversations we had on here a while back than anyone. I don't think they were directed at me personally (except the being late part, I am sure) but I felt bad for my friends who they WERE directed at. I really enjoy playing in Vince's games, but I don't want to get involved in a bunch of drama over it, or feel guilty when I can't play because of other real-world issues.

My primary goals in playing games are to have fun, to partake in some escapism and to blow off some steam. Anything that makes them feel more like work and less like play is a real turnoff to me.

And really, I am sort of tapped out on fantasy character ideas. I'm just feeling blah about the entire genre. I made a character for this game before my dad's health woes but I never really felt any connection with him. I guess I am feeling doubly blah about playing a wide-eyed neophyte making his way in the world with few skills, weak weapons and no power.

[thormagni]

And all that being said, I have had a lot of fun playing Conan and other games that Vince has run. Despite my generally "blah" feeling about my as-yet-unplayed character, If I could have made the games recently, I would have, but between my dad's frequent hospital visits and GenCon, I have just not been available.

[Grimhelm]

Well, those "commitment" conversations were really sort of misinterpreted. We weren't blaming anyone. I wasn't aiming my criticism at anyone. We were just frustrated. We still are. That's all. Perhaps we should just bitch in private, search for other players and just leave it alone.

[thormagni]

Originally Posted by Grimhelm

Well, those "commitment" conversations were really sort of misinterpreted.

I would love to know how they were misinterpreted. Seriously. Maybe I took it the wrong way because I am sort of a narcissist when it comes to criticism, always assuming someone means ME when they throw a generic criticism out.

We weren't blaming anyone. I wasn't aiming my criticism at anyone. We were just frustrated. We still are. That's all. Perhaps we should just bitch in private, search for other players and just leave it alone.

I truly believe that any of our recent players, would make it to any given game, if they could. The fact that they aren't there, generally means they can't be there. I certainly don't mean it as a slight to the gaming group, when I say that in a choice between my family commitments, my work commitments and my gaming commitments, I have to choose gaming last. I suspect that most of us are in the same boat there. It is just the fact of adult life.

ON a side note, maybe we could play at APewty's place, if he can't get away to come to Vince's?

[InzeladunMaster]

Originally Posted by thormagni

I truly believe that any of our recent players, would make it to any given game, if they could. The fact that they aren't there, generally means they can't be there. I certainly don't mean it as a slight to the gaming group, when I say that in a choice between my family commitments, my work commitments and my gaming commitments, I have to choose gaming last. I suspect that most of us are in the same boat there. It is just the fact of adult life.

This is the frustration. People miss. A lot. Not only do they miss a lot, but they always have damn good reasons to miss. I can't fault them for missing.

However - it is frustrating that I spend a lot of time coming up with something, the game gets cancelled/postponed for weeks, and by the time I get to run it, I've lost interest in it. Whatever it was I found compelling about it is gone, so I have to put in work on something new which I find compelling.

So - on one hand, I can't actually fault people for having priorities in line. On the other hand, I can't actually run a game without a certain number of people showing up consistently.

The conversation which seems to have pissed so many people off stemmed from a request to explain why I stopped running games. Perhaps I said it badly, but I will try to restate it here (at the risk of again pissing people off):

I stopped running games because people stopped attending.

It doesn't matter that their reasons were valid.

I am sorry if that attitude pisses anyone off or turns them off. I simply cannot run games when no one attends - and it gets frustrating when it happens for months on end.

I can accept everyone has different priorities - I have priorities too, but I try to schedule around them (yet I had valid reasons to cancel once in a while, too). I completed my MBA while keeping a gaming schedule. I wrote 16 published books (and a few unpublished ones) while maintaining a gaming schedule (and doing my MBA at the same time). I kept in touch with my family and kept my job while maintaining a gaming schedule. Heck, I got divorced and remarried while maintaining a gaming schedule!

I took on the responsibility of GMing and I treat it as a responsibility - as one of several competing priorities. Hanging out with my friends is always going to be a priority with me. I have (and will continue to do so) turned down my parents for visits on game day. (Of course, to be honest, I would rather hang out with you guys than go visit my family, so I am not being fair there as I am probably in the minority. Visiting my family is ... well, boring. I even used game day to get out of going to a wedding once!)

However, one's priorities are not the issue here. Believe it or not, they aren't.

I recognize that most (if not all) the excuses are valid and justified. However, the fact remains that if no one attends, I cannot run a game and will eventually stop even trying. It does not matter if the reasons for not attending are valid or not - consistent non-attendance causes game stoppage.

The same thing for leaving early - it doesn't matter if you have to leave because the wife has a hangnail and needs the trash taken out RIGHT NOW, or if the wife fell off a ladder and is being rushed to the hospital - the game is pretty much disrupted to the point of everyone just going home. The reason can be good or silly - it still ends the game.

The conversation that upset so many people wasn't really about the reasons people had, but for the reason why I wasn't running games anymore - and the reason is simple: people stopped showing up.

That is the issue. Priorities aren't the issue. Reasons being valid or invalid are not the issue. The issue is people are not attending and I need people to run a game, and I need at least a couple of consistent people to run a campaign.

[Grimhelm]

Originally Posted by InzeladunMaster

The issue is people are not attending and I need people to run a game, and I need at least a couple of consistent people to run a campaign.

And on this note let me say that we are now working on creating a core group of players. I foresee a core of about 4 players and 1 DM, and this does not include anyone on this forum but me and Vince.

The rest of you are always welcome. This is guaranteed. However, we will not be counting on you anymore. We already have new players hovering on the horizon, and I am both excited and thrilled by this possibility. Everyone is always welcome at my house and at the gaming table, but the adventure as it stands will move in the direction of new players.

Fortunately, Vince and I have deeply considered these matters and have come up with a way to make your in and outs plausible and workable. Vince is engineering mostly one day campaigns. We also have a fairly stable base of operations that allows for regrouping and touching base with players who haven't been there for a while.

As for criticisms, Thor, you were never one of the ones in mind. Actually, you showed up quite frequently when you could. We are not blaming one single person at all.

Yesterday, and not surprisingly, Alex showed up at my house to personally inform me that he wasn't coming this Saturday. He also came to ask if his brother could join in the game. He expressed the kind of deep need of this game as Vince and I feel, and his brother apparently loves it too. He is committed, and I can sense this. I am excited!

We are going through a transition. Transitions can be bumpy. It must be said though that just because some of us are more committed than others doesn't mean others are somehow less wanted or needed at the table. We love you all! But, things are moving in a different direction now, and I am thrilled by the prospect of having new and consistent gamers! As long as Vince and I keep this goal in mind, the gamers will come.
Cheers!