Converting Epic Level Creatures

[demiurge1138]

I like electric and sonic healing, as well as the idea that it's constantly surrounded by a storm of vengeance. Maybe we can steal from the marut inevitable for its melee attacks? Wing attacks of thunder, talons of lightning?

[freyar]

Good call. So rather than a separate Thunder ability, it does extra damage on melee. I also like the "storm of vengeance aura." Going with that:

Surrounding Storm (Su): The Thunder Bird is constantly surrounded by a storm of vengeance (as the spell at CL X). The storm acts as if the spell were in its 10th continuous round of effect, but the storm does not end after any set number of rounds. The Thunder Bird can suppress or reinstate this aura as a free action.

Wings of Thunder (Su): The Thunder Bird's wing attacks deliver a loud thunderclap when they make a successful hit, dealing an extra 4d12? points of sonic damage to the target. In addition, the victim must make a DC X Fort save or be deafened permanently. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Talons of Lightning (Su): The Thunder Bird's talon attacks deliver a bright shock of electricity to the target on a successful hit, dealing an extra 4d12? points of electricity damage. In addition, the victim must make a DC X Fort save or be blinded permanently. The save DC is Constitution-based.

I have really no idea about the damage, but I feel like d12s need more use.

[demiurge1138]

I, too, support the use of the d12. Love the surrounding storm mechanic. How wide is it? The full radius of a storm of vengeance? Or smaller? Because storm of vengeance has a huge radius. Also, in order to make full use of the storm, a thunderbird should either have a "storm eyes" SQ (where its ability to see is never compromised by weather) or blindsight.

[freyar]

Well, this is epic, so I guess I just thought the full radius storm. But you're right, it's worth thinking about. Any ideas? I also like the "storm eyes" idea a lot.

[Shade]

Great stuff, guys! And more power to the d12!

Updated.

Does this capture what you were thinking?

Eyes of the Storm (Su): The Thunder Bird's vision is never negatively affected by weather conditions.

Do we want to keep the bite as the primary attack or switch to the talons like most of the other great birds?

[demiurge1138]

Shade's Eye of the Storm looks good. And I think we should switch to talons as primary.

[Shade]

24d12 for breath weapon damage? That's two die steps up from the great wyrm blue dragon.

Should we give it an ability that makes its flight unaffected by wind conditions?

Good maneuverability like the lesser thunderbird?

[freyar]

All that sounds good to me. Should we put the natural attack damage one step larger than usual for Large critters?

[Shade]

Sounds good.

Natural armor bonus?

The lesser thunderbird has +7.
The phoneix has +6 (but also has +5 deflection).

Thanks to its continuous storm of vengeance, it already benefits from concealment. We can add a deflection bonus as well if you'd like.

[freyar]

Let's go with +10 natural and think about the deflection bonus. Not sure how big the AC should be; this thing has quite a few HD.

For Eyes of the Storm, should we say explicitly that the Thunder Bird ignores concealment due to magical and nonmagical weather effects, including rain and fog?

[Shade]

Sure, we can be explicit in the text.

Skills: 13 at 47 ranks
Lesser thunderbirds have Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Listen, and Spot

Feats: 15 (8 can be epic)
Lesser thunderbirds have Flyby Attack, Hover, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch.

[freyar]

Skills (all maxed): Bluff, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Spot, Survival.

I went heavy on Knowledge b/c I had a hard time coming up with 13 really useful skills. Its special abilities don't really seem to require Concentration, but we could swap that in for something (Survival?) if you like.

[Shade]

Let's swap out Knowledge (arcana) for Tumble, as I can see it "rolling" through the clouds. Sense Motive seems a good option as well, maybe in place of Knowledge (geography) or Survival?

[freyar]

Tumble is good. Let's put Sense Motive in for Survival. I think geography might be useful for knowing where evil tribes, etc, are. This thing has to travel a lot.

Quick question: the effects of a storm of vengeance are cumulative, right? So the 3rd round effect occurs also in the 4th-10th rounds?

Feats: Flyby Attack, Hover, Cleave, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch, Ability Focus (Surrounding Storm), Penetrate Damage Reduction (silver), Penetrate Damage Reduction (cold iron), Aligned Attack, Improved Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus (talons), Improved Critical (talons), Overwhelming Critical (talons)

Instead of the Cleave, Great Cleave, WF, IC, OC chain, I could also see going to Epic Will, Imp Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Leadership, Epic Leadership. I picked Penetrate DR twice and Aligned Attack (even though it's psionic) because the Thunder Bird fights summoned critters a lot, probably including demons and devils.

[Shade]

Updated.

Yes, I believe the effects of storm of vengeance are cumulative.

For the feats, we can drop aligned attack. I forgot to give it the Chaotic and Good subtypes, which will automatically treat all its natural attacks as chaotic and good for overcoming DR (a sentence which I'll add to the combat section, as usual).

I'd rather avoid Leadership, since it randomly appears by itself. Plus, with its crazy high Diplomacy, it can easily rally some troops if needed.

How about...

Ability Focus (Surrounding Storm), Blinding Speed, Epic Will, Fast Healing, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Critical (talons), Improved Flyby Attack, Improved Multiattack, Multiattack, Penetrate Damage Reduction (cold iron), Penetrate Damage Reduction (silver), Power Attack, Snatch?

If you'd rather just give it fast healing as an ability, we can replace that feat.

[freyar]

This works for me. As for Fast Healing, I'm not sure what feat to replace it with if we drop it.

[Shade]

Updated.

I rewrote the surrounding storm ability to avoid having to reference the storm of vengeance spell (and also to help work in the save DCs for the various effects).

Environment: x

Challenge Rating: x

Treasure: None?

The thunder bird is 12 feet long with a x foot wingspan and weighs about x pounds.

The thunder bird speaks x.

[freyar]

Looks good.

Environment: Any land.
CR: upper 30s?
Treasure: None is ok. Was there not a treasure entry in the original?
30 foot wingspan, not sure about weight. Any other large birds to compare?
Common, Celestial, Draconic, Sylvan, Auran, more?

[GrayLinnorm]

In the original entry, it had treasure type Ux3.

The thunderbird from Sandstorm has standard coins, double goods and items.

[freyar]

Then let's give this thing some treasure, shall we? If Ux3 is big enough, we can even equip it.