Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

[Shade]

Yeah, based on 90 years being "well into middle age", let's go with 150. Chislev sounds like a harsh place.

I'm fine with either dropping the swamp spit for infants, or noting that the CR is one higher than an ogre.

Updated.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by freyar

Would adding the swamp spit to hill giants and ogres be worth a CR bump? I might suggest only adding it to juveniles, actually, partly to avoid this problem (it's less of an increase to a hill giant than an ogre).

...and...

Originally Posted by Shade

I'm fine with either dropping the swamp spit for infants, or noting that the CR is one higher than an ogre.

What about giving the kids a spit ability that is less effective. If infants have smaller stomachs maybe they can spit but can't do damage. You could give them a Swamp Spit ability that doesn't do any hit points, but forces spellcasters to make concentration checks. (Try juggling material components and making complex gestures while a baby bosk giant spits half a pint of dirty water in your eye. )

Originally Posted by freyar

Sounds like about 150-180 yrs.

...and...

Originally Posted by Shade

Yeah, based on 90 years being "well into middle age", let's go with 150. Chislev sounds like a harsh place.

Don't forget that that age was for a swamp giant rather than a bosk giant. Swamp giants seem to be less agressive and more civilised that bosk giants. I'd expect them to live longer than bosk giants, especially with bosk giants sucking up and spitting out stagnent water all the time (that must be pretty bad for their teeth).

How about making bosk giants have the shortest lives (of the three giant races on Chislev). Swamp giants could have the medium lives and hill giants (who are a known quantity) could have the longest lives? I say we put in a 40 year gap between each race (i.e. bump swamp giants up to 160 years and drop bosk giants down to 120 years). How does that sound?

(Actually, I think we younger bosk giants would try to muscle in on the territory of older bosk giants who seem to be showing their age. I think that bosk giants should have no concept of "village elders" and venerable bosk giants should be dangerous homeless loners who stalk humanoids, steal their food and occasionally beat one of them up just to proove to themselves that they are still able to fight.)

[Shade]

I'm good with those age ranges.

I'd rather not make the infants do a different effect, but if you'd like, I'll keep the swamp spit with 1d8 damage.

Ready for the swamp giants?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Shade

I'd rather not make the infants do a different effect, but if you'd like, I'll keep the swamp spit with 1d8 damage.

I'm not massively attached to the spitting ability. I just thought that it was something people would expect to be there.

Maybe the infants have stomachs that are too small to allow them to spit water. Maybe the juvenile bosk giants can only spit once (instead of twice) because they can only store one shot in their stomach. Do you think a 0-1-2 mechanic might seem more like an evolving abilty or should they jump from 0 to 2?

Originally Posted by Shade

Ready for the swamp giants?

YES!

[Shade]

Let's just leave it at 2 times for simplicity's sake. I figure the less damage could be attributed to less "storage capacity".

Moving on...

Giant, Swamp

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Swamps, tropical forests
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Tribal
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: D
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1-3
ARMOR CLASS: 4 or 0
MOVEMENt: 12
HIT DICE: 15+5
THACO: 5
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 or 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8+9/1d8+9 or by weapon 2d6+9
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Hurl spears (1d10+9), spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: H (16' tall)
MORALE: Champion (15-16)
XP VALUE:
Infant: -5 HD 2,000
Juvenile: -2 HD 6,000
Adult: 9,000-10,000
Shaman: 10,000-11,000

Swamp giants are believed to have evolved ages ago from bosk giants. These smaller, stockier giants are more intelligent than the nearby bosk and have learned the rudiments of civilization.

Swamp giants have green skin and hair like the bosk, and therefore are quickly mistaken for their slow-witted cousins. However, there are differences. Swamp giants tend to wear their hair long, usually braided and festooned with ornaments collected from battle. Further, they have facial hair, which most of them keep trimmed.

A swamp giant's natural armor class is 4. However, many of the adult males wear the skin of young green dragons. This skin, cured in a manner known only to these giants, lowers their armor class to 0. Their coloration gives them a +3 chance to surprise opponents and a -3 chance to be surprised. Giants in green dragon armor have a +2 surprise bonus and -2 AC bonus. All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

Combat: Swamp giants fight only when they believe their territory is in danger. They prefer to reason with a foe first (with the exception of dragons). They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions. They prefer to circle their quarry, using their coloration to blend into the foliage.

They begin their assaults with spells. Because swamp giants are so tuned to their environment, from birth they are able to cast entangle three times a day and plant growth once a day. A favorite tactic is to trap prey in a tangle of vegetation, then slaughter it with a volley of spears. Each giant can throw two spears per round.

Habitat/Society: Swamp giants prefer to live in trees, in simple homes constructed of wood and reeds. Of course, the trees they choose for homes are immense, usually at least 10 to 20 feet in diameter and 100 feet or more tall. They generally live peaceful lives, staying to themselves and interacting with the bosk only when their cousins wish to trade. The swamp giants are known for crafting wooden bowls, dishes, and other objects that the bosk covet.

When more than four swamp giants are encountered, they are a mated pair and infants or juveniles.

When encountered in their lair, there are 4d4 + 6 giants, one half of these adults. The remainder are infants and juveniles. An infant has 10 HD and has only a +5 damage bonus. A juvenile at 13 HD has a +7 damage bonus. If a village is threatened, the adults protect the infants and juveniles.

For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid. These shamans are respected in swamp giant communities and are often sought as advisors by the village leader.

All the villages recognize a king. He is considered the strongest and wisest of the swamp giants and other giants look to him to appoint village leaders.

Ecology: Swamp giants live off the land, hunting and foraging for food. Many of them grow a large, ricelike crop. They do not keep animals for food. Their favorite meat is the flesh of young green dragons. In turn, older green dragons like to hunt the swamp giants.

Originally appeared in SJR7 - Krynnspace (1993).

[Shade]

Comparing the 2e stats of the bosk and swamp giants, the swamp should have higher Str (translates to 2 points higher in 3e), Con, and Int (3 points higher). We might also consider raising Cha.

How's this?

Str 29, Dex 10, Con 25, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10


Note that the "special" dragonhide armor isn't so special anymore, since dragonhide is a core special material. That's one less thing to worry about.

[freyar]

I like those stats pretty well, but I'd like to bump Cha to 12 or even 14. These will have entangle as an SLA, and the DC boost would be nice.

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

Fast healing 5?

[freyar]

Yeah. Not much else for these, is there? Skills should probably be split between Spot and Listen, since they're not surprised much. Alertness might be good as a feat, too.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Shade

Giant, Swamp

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Swamps, tropical forests

...and...

Originally Posted by Shade

TREASURE: D

This environment should have a bearing on the sort of equipment they make and the treasure they "drop".

Originally Posted by Shade

ORGANIZATION: Tribal

...and...

Originally Posted by Shade

NO. APPEARING: 1-3

Organization: Solitary, hunting party (2-3 giants) or village (x).

Originally Posted by Shade

DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8+9/1d8+9 or by weapon 2d6+9

You have the slam damage as 1d6+9. Shouldn't it be 1d8+9? (Or is there a general lowering of giant damage in the transition to 3rd edition?)

Originally Posted by Shade

SPECIAL ATTACKS: Hurl spears (1d10+9), spells

Automatic proficiency with spears as well as hide armor (in the Swamp Giant Characters section)?

I think that a swamp giant should cast spells as a druid (worshiping the god Chislev). I'd even suggest druid should be the favored class of Swamp Giant Characters.

Originally Posted by Shade

XP VALUE:
Infant: -5 HD 2,000
Juvenile: -2 HD 6,000
Adult: 9,000-10,000
Shaman: 10,000-11,000

Should we have blurb similar to bosk giants for infant and juvenile swamp giants?

I wonder if we should include separate stats for a Swamp Giant Shaman (like the Ogre Barbarian):

Originally Posted by SRD

Ogre Barbarian
Their inherent bent toward chaos combines with their size and strength to make ogres natural barbarians. Indeed, their leaders are almost always barbarians of low to middle level, monstrous brutes whose fury in battle is truly fearsome. A raging ogre barbarian is an inspiration to other ogres.

Combat
Marginally more intelligent than his brutish fellows, an ogre barbarian is slightly more likely to enter a fair fight, but in general prefers the brutish tactics common to all its kind.

Rage (Ex)
Twice per day, an ogre barbarian can enter a state of fierce rage that last for 9 rounds. The following changes are in effect as long as he rages: AC 17 (touch 8, flat-footed 17); hp 95; Atk +18/+13 melee (2d6+16, +1 greatclub); SV Fort +14, Will +4; Str 30, Con 22; Climb +15, Jump +16. At the end of his rage, the ogre barbarian is fatigued for the duration of the encounter.

Trap Sense (Ex)
An ogre barbarian has a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps. He also has a +1 bonus to his AC against attacks by traps.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
An ogre barbarian retains his Dex bonus to AC regardless of being caught flat-footed or attacked by an invisible opponent. His Dex bonus to AC is +0, but this means that he is not subject to a rogue’s sneak attack in these circumstances.

I'd like to see a Swamp Giant Shaman listed as Chislev worshipping druids of low to middle level, with stats given for a 6th level druid swamp giant.

Originally Posted by Shade

Swamp giants are believed to have evolved ages ago from bosk giants. These smaller, stockier giants are more intelligent than the nearby bosk and have learned the rudiments of civilization.

Hmm. So we copy the bosk giant if there isn't anything here (and could apply things from the swamp giant back to the bosk giant retro-actively if they looked better than what we just did). But we should give swamp giants more intelligence and a better civilsation. As well as making them shorter and fatter.

Originally Posted by Shade

Swamp giants have green skin and hair like the bosk, and therefore are quickly mistaken for their slow-witted cousins. However, there are differences. Swamp giants tend to wear their hair long, usually braided and festooned with ornaments collected from battle. Further, they have facial hair, which most of them keep trimmed.

I think you have this covered in the initial italic blurb. The "ornaments collected from battle" thing is interesting as it could give you an idea for some things to put into the giant's bag. I see these guys being resistant to fighing, but collectors of random items from anyone they are forced to fight and kill.

Originally Posted by Shade

A swamp giant's natural armor class is 4. However, many of the adult males wear the skin of young green dragons. This skin, cured in a manner known only to these giants, lowers their armor class to 0. Their coloration gives them a +3 chance to surprise opponents and a -3 chance to be surprised. Giants in green dragon armor have a +2 surprise bonus and -2 AC bonus. All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

You say dragon armor is taken care of, but I wonder if they can make mastercrafted dragon armor. I certanly think you should consider giving them a few points of Craft(Armorsmithing) in their stats. Or maybe they could get something like a +2 racial bonus to Craft checks that involve green dragonskin.

Originally Posted by Shade

Combat: Swamp giants fight only when they believe their territory is in danger. They prefer to reason with a foe first (with the exception of dragons).

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against green dragons (or all dragons)? Requirement to take green dragons as a favored enemy if they take levels of a class that gives them this ability?

Originally Posted by Shade

They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions. They prefer to circle their quarry, using their coloration to blend into the foliage.

Fluff or ability?

Originally Posted by Shade

They begin their assaults with spells. Because swamp giants are so tuned to their environment, from birth they are able to cast entangle three times a day and plant growth once a day. A favorite tactic is to trap prey in a tangle of vegetation, then slaughter it with a volley of spears. Each giant can throw two spears per round.

Swamp giant shamen are supposed to be druids and both these spells are druid spells.

Entangle is a 1st level druid spell and Plant Growth is a 3rd level druid spell, so I'd suggest they cast these spell-like abilities with caster level of 3rd.

Originally Posted by Shade

Habitat/Society: Swamp giants prefer to live in trees, in simple homes constructed of wood and reeds. Of course, the trees they choose for homes are immense, usually at least 10 to 20 feet in diameter and 100 feet or more tall.

Interesting. A swamp giant village sounds like a cross between Solace (from Dragonlance) and the Ewok village from Return of the Jedi.

I'd suggest a few points in the climb skill. Living on 100 foot tall trees might also alter swamp giant hunting tactics. They could perhaps sometimes move from tree to tree (Tarzan style) and attack people from above.

Originally Posted by Shade

They generally live peaceful lives, staying to themselves and interacting with the bosk only when their cousins wish to trade. The swamp giants are known for crafting wooden bowls, dishes, and other objects that the bosk covet.

Skill points in the stats? Or a +2 racial bonus for Craft checks involving wood.

Originally Posted by Shade

When more than four swamp giants are encountered, they are a mated pair and infants or juveniles.

Hmm. More information for the "Organisation" part of the stats. (The original stats doesn't actually have 4 swamp giants - just 1-3 swamp giants.)

The family thing changes the earier text that said: "They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions." Now it is just Mrs Swamp Giant and the Swamp Giant kids listen to Mr Swamp Giant when they go into combat.

Originally Posted by Shade

When encountered in their lair, there are 4d4 + 6 giants, one half of these adults. The remainder are infants and juveniles. An infant has 10 HD and has only a +5 damage bonus. A juvenile at 13 HD has a +7 damage bonus. If a village is threatened, the adults protect the infants and juveniles.

So a village is 5-11 adults plus 5-11 infants and juveniles.

Originally Posted by Shade

For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid. These shamans are respected in swamp giant communities and are often sought as advisors by the village leader.

So to the village stats we need to add in a leader or a leader plus a shaman.

Originally Posted by Shade

All the villages recognize a king. He is considered the strongest and wisest of the swamp giants and other giants look to him to appoint village leaders.

The swamp giant king is King Sully Gatherer-Clan. This NPC is on page 47 of SJR7 Krynnspace. I'll type him in later on, as his text could help with the conversion.

Originally Posted by Shade

Ecology: Swamp giants live off the land, hunting and foraging for food. Many of them grow a large, ricelike crop. They do not keep animals for food. Their favorite meat is the flesh of young green dragons. In turn, older green dragons like to hunt the swamp giants.

Nice fluff. More evidence that these guys need a bonus against green dragons.

[Big Mac]

I don't know if you want to convert this guy (as a swamp giant NPC) or just use his stats and fluff as a guide, but I think he is useful:

Sully Gatherer-Clan

Name: Sully Gatherer-Clan
Occupation: Swamp Giant King
Str: 24
Int: 10
Dex: 12
Cha: 18
Wis: 10
Con: 22

Sully of the Harvest Clan has served as king of the swamp giants for the past three decades.

Well into middle-age for a swamp giant, he works to retain his great strength and health, knowing that if he begins to weaken he will be challenged for the kingship.

Sully is the only swamp giant who has been off of Chislev, and he is the only giant on his world to truly have mastered hand-to-hand fighting techniques. As a child, he was captured by spelljamming pirates and sold into slavery to an unscupulous land baron in Shou Lung. Escaping after four years of hard labor, the young giant was befriended by a band of Shou Lung adventurers who took to the stars aboard a spelljammer. Sully accompanied them, and eventually their travels took them back to Sully's home. It was because of Sully that the Shou Lung group decided to explor the planet.

Sully became king at age 60, after killing an adult green dragon with his bare hands. He has ruled the swamp giants well, appointing leaders over the communities and meeting with these leaders to discuss various common problems. A prime concern is the aggressive green dragons. Sully has passed down combat techniques he learned in Shou Lung, which have proved fairly effective in fighting the great lizards. Still, he has not been able to obliterate the threat.

It is because of Sully that spelljamming adventurers are welcomed by the swamp giants. Prior to Sully's return, these giants - like the humans and demihumans of Chislev - feared and sometimes attacked visitors. Tribes of giants not beholden to Sully are rumored to exist deep in the jungles.

Sully is cordial and cooperative with all neutral and good-aligned spelljamming visitors. He is quick to strike up trade agreements and to allow humans and demihumans to hire his people as guides. The swamp giants have learned which plants are most prized by humans and demihumans and have no qualms about allowing the small people to take as many plants as they can carry. The giants know there is no shortage of vegitation on Chislev.

Originally appeared in SJR7 - Krynnspace (1993).

[freyar]

Lots of comments there!

I'd say CL should be higher than 3rd, potentially as high as 15. At least 5th, though, since plant growth is 3rd level.

I like the idea of a giving them favored enemy (dragon). I'd also be fine with statting up a shaman.

Giving them craft skills is also a good idea.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Hmm. So we copy the bosk giant if there isn't anything here (and could apply things from the swamp giant back to the bosk giant retro-actively if they looked better than what we just did). But we should give swamp giants more intelligence and a better civilsation. As well as making them shorter and fatter.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that swamp giant hairdressers are better than bosk giant hairdressers!

Originally Posted by freyar

Lots of comments there!

At least one of them must be useful.

Originally Posted by freyar

I'd say CL should be higher than 3rd, potentially as high as 15. At least 5th, though, since plant growth is 3rd level.

You are right. I should have said 5th level. I mixed up spell level with spellcasting level. Doh!

Is there a lot of precident for giving monsters more spellcasting oomph than the lowest level needed to cast the spells?

With swamp giants having 15 HD an LA of just +5 is going to make their ECL so high that they become epic as 0 level PCs.

Originally Posted by freyar

I like the idea of a giving them favored enemy (dragon).

Is favored enemy (dragon) too broad? Should we narrow it down to favored enemy (green dragon)?

Originally Posted by freyar

I'd also be fine with statting up a shaman.

Do you think we should max them out and create a Shaman that was a 6th level (Chislev worshiping) druid?

Originally Posted by freyar

Giving them craft skills is also a good idea.

Thanks.

[freyar]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

You are right. I should have said 5th level. I mixed up spell level with spellcasting level. Doh!

Is there a lot of precident for giving monsters more spellcasting oomph than the lowest level needed to cast the spells?

With swamp giants having 15 HD an LA of just +5 is going to make their ECL so high that they become epic as 0 level PCs.

Well, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, but caster level for SLAs is often equal to (or at least close to) HD.

Is favored enemy (dragon) too broad? Should we narrow it down to favored enemy (green dragon)?

It's probably not much of a big deal either way, but the standard favored enemy feature works by type. Narrowing it down to green dragons only would also make it kind of extra baggage except in green-dragon-intensive settings (like Chislev).

Do you think we should max them out and create a Shaman that was a 6th level (Chislev worshiping) druid?

Not sure what you mean by maxing out, but 6th level druid works for me.

[Big Mac]

OK. Lets see what we can work out from Sully - the swamp giant king.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Name: Sully Gatherer-Clan

Looks like they use a forename and then their clan name.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Occupation: Swamp Giant King
Str: 24
Int: 10
Dex: 12
Cha: 18
Wis: 10
Con: 22

These stats are both above and below what Shade has. Sully has 96 points in total and Shade's swamp giant has 100 points.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Sully of the Harvest Clan has served as king of the swamp giants for the past three decades.

Now they call him Sullly of the Harvest Clan. Looks like an editing cock-up to me.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Well into middle-age for a swamp giant, he works to retain his great strength and health, knowing that if he begins to weaken he will be challenged for the kingship.

Looks like anyone can theoretically become a swamp giant king. (And anyone can theoretically become a swamp giant tribe leader.)

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Sully is the only swamp giant who has been off of Chislev, and he is the only giant on his world to truly have mastered hand-to-hand fighting techniques. As a child, he was captured by spelljamming pirates and sold into slavery to an unscupulous land baron in Shou Lung. Escaping after four years of hard labor, the young giant was befriended by a band of Shou Lung adventurers who took to the stars aboard a spelljammer. Sully accompanied them, and eventually their travels took them back to Sully's home. It was because of Sully that the Shou Lung group decided to explor the planet.

Interesting (at least to me) but not much use for game stats (unless you want to convert Sully and give him Oriental Adventures fighting skills).

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Sully became king at age 60, after killing an adult green dragon with his bare hands. He has ruled the swamp giants well, appointing leaders over the communities and meeting with these leaders to discuss various common problems. A prime concern is the aggressive green dragons. Sully has passed down combat techniques he learned in Shou Lung, which have proved fairly effective in fighting the great lizards. Still, he has not been able to obliterate the threat.

So not only do the swamp giants not have a hereditary king, they also do not retain their kings for life. But if Sully killed a green dragon (rather than an eariler king) it would seem that kings perhaps compete against challangers rather than fight them.

If tribal leaders are apointed by the king then members of tribes probably don't fight to settle leadership contests.

It looks like all swamp giants could (theoretically) learn imported combat skills from Kara-Tur.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

It is because of Sully that spelljamming adventurers are welcomed by the swamp giants. Prior to Sully's return, these giants - like the humans and demihumans of Chislev - feared and sometimes attacked visitors. Tribes of giants not beholden to Sully are rumored to exist deep in the jungles.

This is interesting, but is mostly background material that doesn't affect the conversion. It does let us know that the lost tribes of swamp giants are more fearful of visitors and are more likely to attack them.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Sully is cordial and cooperative with all neutral and good-aligned spelljamming visitors. He is quick to strike up trade agreements and to allow humans and demihumans to hire his people as guides. The swamp giants have learned which plants are most prized by humans and demihumans and have no qualms about allowing the small people to take as many plants as they can carry. The giants know there is no shortage of vegitation on Chislev.

Again this is background information is interesting, but mostly doesn't affect the conversion. It does let us know that swamp giants can be paid to serve as guides and are aware of the sort of plants that humans and demihumans (humanoids perhaps?) are most likely to want.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by freyar

Well, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, but caster level for SLAs is often equal to (or at least close to) HD.

Thanks for the info. I'll go with you (or others) on this.

Originally Posted by freyar

It's probably not much of a big deal either way, but the standard favored enemy feature works by type. Narrowing it down to green dragons only would also make it kind of extra baggage except in green-dragon-intensive settings (like Chislev).

If all dragons makes these giants easier to reuse, I'll go with all dragons.

Originally Posted by freyar

Not sure what you mean by maxing out, but 6th level druid works for me.

IN this sentence: "For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid." The highest level for the shaman (druid) is 6th level. The Ogre Barbarian is 4th level and I thought it would be good to make the Swamp Giant Shaman a 6th level druid (which is the maximum under the 2nd edition rules).

[Shade]

Wow...lots to sift through.

Addressing a few things...

I've updated them with the favored enemy (dragon) ability and CL 5th for SLAs.

Dragonhide armor, like adamantine and mithral, assumes masterwork quality in its construction.

Since their HD are so high, and LA will undoubtedly push them to epic levels, we have no need for a full "as characters" section, but rather the simplified entry used for cloud and storm giants.

I like the idea of a +2 on Craft checks related to wood. How about a +4 racial bonus on Climb checks as well?

Skills: 18 (remember -2 armor check penalty)
Divvy among Climb, Craft (woodworking), Hide, Listen, Spot?

Feats: 6
Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (spear)?

I'm fine with statting up both a shaman and King Sully.

[freyar]

I like the feats and skill bonuses. To split up the ranks, how about 3 each in Climb, Hide, Listen, Spot, and 6 in Craft?

These are looking pretty decent. For the bags, how about some carved wood objects?

[Shade]

Updated.

CR 10? They seem on par with fire giants and not quite as tough as cloud giants.

Organization: Solitary, hunting party (2-3) or village (5-11 adults plus 5-11 infants and juveniles plus one 8th- to 12th-level leader and one 1st- to 6th-level shaman)?

A swamp giant stands about 16 feet tall and weighs about x pounds. (Cloud giants are about 18 feet tall and weigh about 5,000 pounds, an adult forest giant stands 18 feet tall but weighs only 3,000 pounds, a frost giant is about 15 feet tall and weighs about 2,800 pounds)

A swamp giant's bag usually contains carved wooden objects, such as spoons and bowls, and x.

Most adult swamp giants are rangers. Those that become shamans are generally druids, although a rare few become clerics. A swamp giant cleric has access to two of the following domains: x, x, x, or x.

[freyar]

CR, organization look fine. 4000 lb? spoons, bowls, and small art objects. For domains, how about Community, Plant, Strength, and Weather?

A thought just hit me: since they help people find useful plants, maybe Survival would be a good skill. Since Hide isn't doing them much good anyway, want to swap those ranks into Survival?