Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

[freyar]

Agreed, and agreed to everything in Shade's post above. Looking at the original numbers, though, I think the climb speed should probably be higher (base climb about 2/3 base speed). How about 20 ft for the climb speed?

[Shade]

Updated.

Skills: 7
Normal ogres have Climb, Listen, Spot

Feats: 2
Normal ogres have Toughness, Weapon Focus (greatclub)

CR: 4? (That extra attack each round at low levels seems to warrant an additional +1 CR over a standard ogre)

[demiurge1138]

CR 4 sounds right. Shouldn't there be some sort of penalty for entering a blood-frenzy, if there's a Will save? Such as--attacking the nearest creature, or being unable to stop attacking? If the latter is the case, we'd want to give it a real duration, since the definition of "encounter" could prove problematic.

[freyar]

How about going the same route as the dire wolverine and saying "until either it or its opponent is dead"? But yes, I agree, it has to attack whatever damaged it (or the nearest creature if prevented from attacking whoever damaged it).

Split the skills about evenly among those three. How about WF (greataxe) and Power Attack?

There's an extra t in "arbalest" in Weapon Familiarity. For the arbalest, let's leave the threat range at 20 but give it triple damage on a crit. I'm all for ranged sunder attempts, too.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by freyar

For the arbalest, let's leave the threat range at 20 but give it triple damage on a crit. I'm all for ranged sunder attempts, too.

Tripple damage sometimes seems to fit in better than double damage more often.

Ranged sunder also seems to fit in well with the original version. I like it. But can weapons "crack skulls" in third edition? That sounds more like a called shot, kind-of effect. I realise this is just flavor text, but I can see a slightly dim DM searching for the skull cracking rule.

[Shade]

Updated.

Someone wanna rewrite the blood frenzy to incorporate the suggested changes?

ORGANIZATION: Tribe or company
INTELLIGENCE: Common low (8-10), Leader/Captain average (11-12)
HIT DICE: Common 4+3, Leader 5+4, Captain 6+6

Units of Stonecrown ogres that have worked and trained together for long periods can control their battle frenzy, raging only when they deem it appropriate. The sight of an entire company of ogres going into battle-rage at once has routed more than one army.

Stonecrown ogre leaders always have maximum hit points and superior armor, generally a form of chain. Mercenary captains have superior armor and often carry Stonecrown arbalests.

Ogre's Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (3–4), or band (5–8)

Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (3–4), band (5–8), tribe (2-20 plus 1 leader of 1st level), or company (2-20 plus 1 leader of 1st level per 5 ogres and 1 captain of 2nd level)?

[freyar]

Blood Frenzy (Ex): If a stonecrown ogre takes damage from an attack, spell, trap, or any other source, it must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + points of damage suffered since its last action) at the start of its next action or enter a blood frenzy. While in a blood frenzy, the ogre
must attempt to attack the most recent creature or object to damage it; if that is not possible, it must attempt to attack the nearest creature instead. In addition, it gains a single extra attack each round at its highest bonus when making a full attack. The blood frenzy lasts until either the ogre or its opponent is dead, after which the stonecrown ogre is fatigued.

[Shade]

Updated.

Look good?

[freyar]

Think so!

[Big Mac]

My only concern is with this: "While in a blood frenzy, the ogre
must attempt to attack the most recent creature or object to damage it; if that is not possible, it must attempt to attack the nearest creature instead."

I can see someone trying to manipulate this into making Stonecrown Ogres attack each other. I think the Controlled Frenzy feat should also give the creature some sort of way to avoid (or try to avoid) attacking allies.

(For example if an archer in a fortified tower shot at a Stonecrown Ogre at the back of a bunch of Stonecrown Ogres, that creature can't attack back. Instead of hitting another Stonecrown Ogre next to it, I think it should charge forward and start hacking at the door at the bottom of the tower. As long as people between it and the archer don't stop it moving forward, I think it should be able to move past them and carry on searching for the archer.)

In other words, I think the Controlled Frenzy feat should also allow the Stonecrown Ogre to control (to an extent) who its frenzy is aimed at and delay fighting creatures if breaking down doors or ripping down walls will let it get to a creature that has attacked it.

I think they also need to be able to recognise when an opponent has escaped (teleported away or whatever) and try to prematurely end their Blood Frenzy. How about giving a Stonecrown Ogre with the Controlled Frenzy feat the ability to make additional will saves (maybe one per round) to delay or end their Blood Frenzy or alter the target of their frenzy?

EDIT: Or is this too much for a single feat? Would you want to make a second feat that adds to the first one?

[Shade]

Rather than make it a feat, we can just follow the frenzied berserker's example and allow another Will save to end the frenzy early.

"To end the frenzy before its duration expires, the character may attempt a DC 20 Will save once per round as a free action. Success ends the frenzy immediately; failure means it continues."

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Shade

Rather than make it a feat, we can just follow the frenzied berserker's example and allow another Will save to end the frenzy early.

"To end the frenzy before its duration expires, the character may attempt a DC 20 Will save once per round as a free action. Success ends the frenzy immediately; failure means it continues."

This sounds good. The "once per round" makes it very clear.

[Shade]

Giant, Ogre
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Mountains, desert
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Clans
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET: Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Low (5-6)
TREASURE: D
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 3
MOVEMENT: 9
HIT DICE: 14
THAC0: 7
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-12 + 7/1-12 +7
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Hurl boulders (1-10/1-10)
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: H (20 ft. tall)
MORALE: Champion (15-16)
XP VALUE: 4,000; 5,000 (clan leader); 175 (juvenile)

Aside from their phenomenal size, ogre giants have more in common with ogres and ogre magi than they do with "true" giants (such as hill, stone, and jungle varieties). Ogre magi and other solitary beings may use ogre giants as guardians. Ogres, at least the enlightened ones, avoid their unpredictable and oft-savage cousins.

Standing 20 feet tall and weighing some 8,500 pounds, ogre giants are larger than many true giants. Bristling hair covers their hulking bodies, ranging in color from tan to umber. They wear no clothing or armor unless a master has trained them to do so. Their visage is fearsome. About 6 in 10 ogre giants are cyclopean, having a single eye centered in their hairy forehead. Their richly veined ears hang to their shoulders like those of an elephant; by flapping them gently, ogre giants can cool their blood and their bodies. Males have great tusks curling out from their powerful jaws, glistening with drool. Both sexes may live up for up to 500 years, by which time their faces have gone completely gray.

Ogre giants speak the language of ogres. Those who live near caravan routes or other civilized areas speak Midani as well. A few legendary creatures have attained enlightenment and gained positions as missionaries to their own kind. In general, however, the race consists of savage, unenlightened brutes.

Combat: Ogre giants typically fight with their powerful fists or by tossing boulders in the manner of true giants. They can throw only small boulders (1d10 damage), with a maximum range of 120 yards. However, they can toss one with each hand, or two boulders per round. Given a ready supply (such as a mountain stronghold), an ogre giant can lob missiles down on his or her enemies indefinitely.

Habitat/Society: Ogre giants live in family groups, or clans. Each clan has one leader, a male with maximum hit points. He has one to three wives, each with normal ogre giant statistics. The rest of the clan includes the leader's children, as well as his unmarried siblings. To determine the statistics of younger ogre giants at random, roll 1d4 for each. A "4" means the youth has the abilities and statistics of a common ogre. (See Volume One of the Monstrous Compendium.) Otherwise, its statistics match those of an adult ogre giant.

Ogre giants occasionally are in the employ of a more powerful individual, either a sha'ir, sorcerer, or ogre mage. Such individuals usually appreciate their solitude. They use ogre giants as guardians to keep ill-advised interlopers from disturbing them. In return, the powerful master helps protect the clan against more diligent foes.

Ogre giants keep no slaves, nor do they eat the flesh of sentient creatures. They kill their enemies and build rock cairns around them. They also bury their own dead in these cairns, continually adding to the mass of stones over the years. After a clan has been in one location for several generations, its cairns look like small mountains. Greedy tomb-robbers and necromancers searching for raw materials sometimes desecrate such mounds. Not surprisingly, ogre giants view those actions as a sacrilege, one that must be punished by death.

Ogre giants are simple creatures, easily confused and deceived. They are aware of their limitations, however, and are very vengeful toward those who cheat or lie to them (once they figure it out). They have mercurial tempers, and if angered, ogre giants will lash out, seeking to destroy whatever (or whomever) confounded them.

Ecology: Ogre giant clans are few and far between, owing in part to their vast requirements for food. Some maintain their own herds of sheep and goats. Some also trade with humans, but most keep to themselves. In general, lone ogre giants are males looking for a clan with daughters suitable for marriage, or they are males looking for a location in which to establish their own clan.

Ogre giants are confused by crowds. They do not adapt well to army life, and most cannot even handle a visit to a city bazaar. If the pressure of dealing with other creatures becomes too much for an ogre giant, he or she simply goes berserk, striking out at everything confusing. An ogre giant amok in a busy bazaar is as destructive as many earthquakes. As a result, clans are mostly left alone.

Originally appeared in Land of Fate (1992).

[Shade]

+7 damage would indicate Str equal to a hill giant. However, these guys are much larger, so I'd recommend taking the hill giant Str score and upsizing to Huge, giving us Str 33, which is still weaker than the other Huge giants in the Monster Manual.

We know Int is 5-6. An ogre mage has Dex 10, which I think seems appropriate here. Upsizing an ogre mage to Huge yields Con 21, which is only slightly less than the other Huge giants in the Monster Manual (at Con 23). We can borrow the other mental stats from the ogre (which are identical to the hill giant as well).

So...

Str 33, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7?

[demiurge1138]

Stats seem quite reasonable.

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

[freyar]

Looks pretty good so far. I'd change rock throwing to

Dual Rock Throwing (Ex): An ogre giant can throw rocks as other types of giants can. In addition, as a full round action, an ogre giant can throw two rocks (one per hand) with no attack penalty. The range increment is x feet for an ogre giant’s thrown rocks.

[demiurge1138]

Do we want to give them some sort of a frenzy ability, or is their violent hatred of confusing crowds just a result of their low intelligence and chaotic natures?

[freyar]

I had just been thinking of that as flavor text, I guess. If we went with some sort of frenzy (or maybe they act as if targeted by the confusion spell), I'd go with some sort of probability/hour that they become confused.

[demiurge1138]

I'd prefer that just being flavor myself, I think.