Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[freyar]

Why the fixed DC and not Charisma-based? I agree with the number, approximately, but I wonder about the philosophy.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Shade

Death Ray (Su): An apollyon can project a thin, gray ray up to 100 feet from its eyes. Any living creature struck by this ray takes 1d100 points of damage (Fort DC x half). After striking one target, the ray dissipates and cannot be used again for 1d4 rounds. This is a death effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Death's grip is so strong on those slain by one of his apollyon's death rays that a DC X caster level check is required to restore life via raise dead, ressurrection, and similar life-restoring magic.

Look OK?

Originally Posted by Shade

DC 25 for the caster level check?

Works for me, and DC 25 is a good fit to the Apollyon's 15 hit dice.

Hmm, that suggests we could say DC 10 + Hit Dice, thus:

Death's grip is so strong on those slain by one of his apollyon's death rays that a DC 25 caster level check (10 plus the apollyon's Hit Dice) is required to restore life via resurrection, and similar life-restoring magic.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by freyar

Why the fixed DC and not Charisma-based? I agree with the number, approximately, but I wonder about the philosophy.

Well, caster level checks often don't get an ability modifier, so it makes sense the target DC doesn't either, like with Spell Resistance.

[RavinRay]

DC 25 to successfully bring back to life someone killed by one of these death angel types. That is sooo bad, I like it. So imagine how high the DC would be if an advanced apollyon did it.

[Shade]

Sounds good. Updated.

An Apollyon fang bite is poisonous. The initial bite does 1-8 points damage. If a save versus poison is not made, the victim will take 1-8 additional points every round until he is either dead or cured by a Cleric.

Should we expand bleeding wounds to cover the bite, or maybe some variation of the clay golem's cursed wound ability?

They number 15, each indistinguishable from the other.

The Apollyon serve as Death’s messengers and guardians of the outer realms of the Dead Lands. Outside of the Dead Lands, Apollyon always appear alone.

Organizaton: Solitary or x (2-15) [the latter being only on their home plane]

The Apollyon rarely speak and when they do, their voices are harsh from lack of practice.

Apollyon speak x in harsh voices, but rarely do so.

Death grants them limited initiative. Because of their service to Death, the Apollyon often have knowledge of things hidden to mortals. They may offer a party advice or directions, if they deem such advice or directions to be in Death’s favor.

Add Knowledge to their skills?

The Apollyon, in melee, need never check morale, as they have no fear of dying.

Immunity to fear effects?

[freyar]

Originally Posted by Shade

Should we expand bleeding wounds to cover the bite, or maybe some variation of the clay golem's cursed wound ability?

Bleeding wounds fits the original text better, though I do find the cursed wound appealing. Hmm.

Organizaton: Solitary or x (2-15) [the latter being only on their home plane]

Sounds right. Murder like ravens? Or something more neutral, like "cemetery"?

Apollyon speak x in harsh voices, but rarely do so.

Common, I guess, maybe an alignment language or two?

Add Knowledge to their skills?
...
Immunity to fear effects?

Yes and yes.

Originally Posted by RavinRay

DC 25 to successfully bring back to life someone killed by one of these death angel types. That is sooo bad, I like it. So imagine how high the DC would be if an advanced apollyon did it.

That's the thing: a static DC isn't going to increase with advancement, and what we have now is really kind of nonstandard. Or are we treating the apollyon as taking 10 on an opposed CL=HD caster level check?

[Shade]

freyar - As odd as it seems, caster level checks are generally arbitrary. Check out mummy rot and the cursed wound of the clay golem. Neither appear to be based on ability scores.

[freyar]

Originally Posted by Shade

freyar - As odd as it seems, caster level checks are generally arbitrary. Check out mummy rot and the cursed wound of the clay golem. Neither appear to be based on ability scores.

True that. I guess this is some minor weirdness of 3.X that I might wish Pathfinder would fix but probably won't. Anyway, it all seems fine.

[demiurge1138]

Make the bite both wounding and cursed. Agreed to immune to fear (and death effects) and Knowledge skills added to their class list.

Perhaps Draconic, Celestial and Infernal as their languages?

[Shade]

Updated.

Skills: 9 at 18 ranks
Knowlede (any x)...

Feats: 6
Multiattack, Track?

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Shade

Should we expand bleeding wounds to cover the bite, or maybe some variation of the clay golem's cursed wound ability?

Well the description would suggest bleeding wounds at X damage per round until a cure wounds spell or Heal check is made to stop it. There's nothing to suggest a Clay Golem's ability to prevent wounds healing.

Originally Posted by Shade

Organizaton: Solitary or x (2-15) [the latter being only on their home plane]

What's the collective noun for a group of Appolyon's? A mortality of Appolyon's? A fatality? A mortuary?

Originally Posted by Shade

Apollyon speak x in harsh voices, but rarely do so.

For some reason I imagine them as having a tongues-like ability to speak the language of all mortal beings, although all they usually have to say is "you're going to die".

Originally Posted by Shade

Add Knowledge to their skills?

But what kind of Knowledge, Knowledge (religion), since that covers undead and funerary practices?

So, how about its other skills.

Spot, Listen and Search?

Survival, to track down those fated to die?

Intimidate and Sense Motive? These things are likely to be scary and difficult to mislead.

That's seven skills, which still leaves us two. Are Appolyon's sneaky? If they are death which creeps up unawares we could add Move Silently and Hide.

So, put those all together and we get 18 ranks apiece in:

Knowledge (religion), Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival

Will that do?

Originally Posted by Shade

Immunity to fear effects?

That seems reasonable.

[demiurge1138]

Feats, feats... how do Ability Focus (death ray), Combat Expertise, Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (claw), Multiattack, Track sound?

[freyar]

Languages, skills, and feats all seem good to me.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by demiurge1138

Feats, feats... how do Ability Focus (death ray), Combat Expertise, Flyby Attack, Improved Critical (claw), Multiattack, Track sound?

Those look fine to me. At first I wasn't so sure about Combat Expertise, but it will help compensate for the Apollyon's mediocre AC.

[Shade]

Updated.

Anyone else up for tongues? Cleon's got me convinced.

Environment: Home plane of a death deity?

Challenge Rating: 14

Advancement: 16-30 HD (Large); 31-45 HD (Huge)?

An apollyon stands 10 feet tall and weighs x pounds.

[freyar]

Tongues makes sense to me, as long as no one objects.

The rest sounds fine. Environment could included Material, but that's already noted in the flavor.

1000 lb, similar to hill giants?

[freyar]

Double post!

[Shade]

That'll probably work. Although they are described as "gaunt", and are a bit shorter than hill giants, they do have massive wings.

[demiurge1138]

I'd say CR 15. They've got lots o' hit points. I'd also suggest including their death ray in their attacks line--it is a ranged touch attack, right?

[Shade]

Updated.

Thinking about these fellas last night, perhaps we could add a continuous deathwatch ability to jazz 'em up a tad?