I'm ok with dropping the Con a bit (though +5 seems a pretty high addition to HD), but I prefer Int toward the higher range given their general knowledge (which is Int, not Wis based). And I like the higher Cha for the SLAs, too. How about Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 19?
Their Con is on par with (or slightly below) other 10 HD outsiders, such as monadic devas, osyluths, and vrocks. The "+5" in the HD line was quite a big boost in 1e.
Also, their Int of Genius to supra-genius rivaled only the greatest of dragons, archdevils, etc., in 1e, so the scores are probably a bit understated, actually. These are knowledge-focused monsters, so mental stats should be their strong suit.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
No natural, I think, but I could go for a deflection bonus to AC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiurge1138
Agreed to knowledgable and to an unearthly grace-type ability. Considering their affinity for force effects, giving them mage armor wouldn't be much of a stretch.
Does anyone see a problem with simply giving them unearthly grace (adds Cha bonus to saves and as deflection bonus to AC)?
I like the mage armor idea as well. 3/day? That puts them at AC 20, at least 4 points shy of the other outsiders we compared them to earlier. Maybe add shield 3/day as well?
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
Does anyone see a problem with simply giving them unearthly grace (adds Cha bonus to saves and as deflection bonus to AC)?
I like the mage armor idea as well. 3/day? That puts them at AC 20, at least 4 points shy of the other outsiders we compared them to earlier. Maybe add shield 3/day as well?
I don't see anything suggesting such extraordinarily good saves in the original. I was thinking just Wis bonus to AC like a monk, not Cha.
The monk bonus to AC is a nice suggestion--I like it!
Ta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiurge1138
I also think that just 3/day mage armor is sufficient.
Mage armour's OK by me.
So, what AC have we got so far? +2 Dex, +5 Wis, +4 mage armour adds up to AC21. If we want it to be near a "typical" 10 HD Outsider it looks like it needs nudging up a bit more.
Other than adding shield as a SLA, I could see granting them an insight bonus. However, that is usually based off Wis modifier, so combined with the monk AC bonus, it would be "double-dipping."
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
Quicken and Empower SLA (magic missile), Combat Expertise? I see them throwing magic missles around like mad. I could drop one of the magic missle feats or the other if there's strong sentiment against them, but I'd like to keep at least one.
It works for me. Since they tend to shun weapons, and lack other attacks, magic missiles seem an excellent method of removing "inconveniences" in their pursuit of knowledge.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
Quicken and Empower SLA (magic missile), Combat Expertise? I see them throwing magic missles around like mad. I could drop one of the magic missle feats or the other if there's strong sentiment against them, but I'd like to keep at least one.
Hmm, so the proposal is Quicken (shield) and Quicken (magic missile). I guess if magic missile is they're preferred form of violence it makes sense they would have a defence against it, but it looks like it may be investing too many feats into 1st level spells.
It can Empower a spell up to 4th level with its 12 caster levels, so we could put that feat into a different SLA. How about Empower (searing light)? It only has 2 uses of it, but it's a little better damage-wise than magic missile, assuming it hits.
Skills: 14 at 13 ranks
Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Search, Spellcraft, Spot? 3 more Knowledge skills?
Are we going to set the other Knowledge skills? The relevant section is:
"They may answer questions as sages, with special categories in the inner and outer planes and major fields in humankind, demi-humankind, humanoids, and giantkind. The prices asked to provide such knowledge to other races are often unusual. Minor questions have been answered for no more than a demonstration of a simple knot or the telling of an old folktale"
Humanoids fall under Knowledge (local), giants under Knowledge (nature) and its great age and possession of antiques suggests Knowledge (history). That would make it:
Decipher Script would seem to make sense in their pursuit of Knowledge. And maybe Sense Motive to support their approach to "equal value" of shared knowledge?
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
Decipher Script would seem to make sense in their pursuit of Knowledge. And maybe Sense Motive to support their approach to "equal value" of shared knowledge?
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