Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[freyar]

I like the normal bite, but perhaps give it maul (constrict-like option for bite).

Abilities sound good.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by demiurge1138

Let's see. Old-school thief skills at a 9th level would indicate ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Climb, Search, Disable Device, Open Lock and Sleight of Hand. Now, these guys are pretty darn dumb, so we might want to consider giving them a racial bonus to one or more of these skills.

Although... they're natives of Pandemonium, so Listen is actually worthless. In fact, they might have racial deafness (no penalties for being deaf, immune to language-dependant effects) and telepathy for communication.

I'd give it a Climb speed and the same racial bonuses as a Monstrous Hunting Spider (+10 Jump, +4 Hide, +8 Climb, +8 Spot) plus the ability to use the best of Dex or Str for Climb checks.

As an Int 7 Outsider it has enough skill points to max-out six skills (12 points per skill). I'd not put any points in Climb (its Dex 24 and racial bonus gives it Climb +15, which should be enough for most purposes) and put 12 points each in Hide, Move Silently and Listen and 9 points each in Search, Disable Device, Open Lock and Sleight of Hand.

Including ability, size and racial adjustments that works out as:

Skills: Climb +15, Disable Device +7, Jump +15, Hide +19, Listen +13, Move Silently +19, Open Lock +16, Search +10, Sleight of Hand +16, Spot +18

Those look reasonable. Disable Device is a bit low, but that seems appropriate.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by demiurge1138

Although... they're natives of Pandemonium, so Listen is actually worthless. In fact, they might have racial deafness (no penalties for being deaf, immune to language-dependant effects) and telepathy for communication.

They could have a supernatural ability to ignore noise penalties to Listen checks. Maybe combined with sonic resistance?

Also, they often roam other planes (Limbo, Abyss, Astral, Ethereal and Prime Material et cetera), where regular Listen checks are possible.

[Shade]

Here's a couple of abilities I gave some outsiders from Pandemonium I pitched to Dragon awhile back...

Wind Tolerance (Su): Flying x are unaffected by high winds, and are never checked, knocked down, or blown away by wind conditions. x suffer no penalties to Listen checks made in areas of high winds.

Sounds of Pandemonium (Su): The spells and sonic effects of x are not limited to 10 feet on the plane of Pandemonium. Additionally, xs' hearing is not limited like that of other creatures on Pandemonium. x cannot be deafened by any means.

[freyar]

Does Sounds of Pandemonium only work on sonic effects (or does Pandemonium limit other spells in some way)? I'm going back and forth on how helpful these are for teners. Hmph.

[Shade]

Hearing on Pandemonium
The constant screams of wind make it impossible to hear anything beyond 10 feet. Likewise, spells and effects that rely on sonic energy have their range limited to 10 feet. Travelers are temporarily deafened after 1d10 rounds of exposure to the winds, and permanently deafened after 24 hours of exposure. Temporarily deafened characters regain their hearing after 1 hour spent out of the wind.

Ear plugs or similar devices negate the deafening effect. Of course, wearing ear plugs effectively mimics the normal effects of being deafened.

[freyar]

I so wish the Great Wheel were in the SRD. Is it always severe wind on Pandemonium? If so, I think those abilities are good, though we can probably remove the spells and sonic effects bit unless we let them advance by character class.

[Shade]

Pandemonium Combat
Combat functions normally on Pandemonium, but in most cases takes place among strong winds. All ranged weapons suffer a -2 penalty on attacks due to the winds, and Tiny or smaller creatures must make a Fortitude save (DC 10) each round or be knocked down.

Sometimes the winds of Pandemonium are even more powerful. For the effects of stronger winds on combat, see Table 3-17: Wind Effects in Chapter 3 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide.

[freyar]

You've convinced me.

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews (sans wind tolerance and sounds of Pandemonium until 0others weigh in on them).

I think we should give them a climb speed, since old-school thieves were swift climbers, and their natural enviroment is mostly winding caverns.

[freyar]

10 or 20 ft climb speed? That could free up some skill ranks too.

They should have Imp Grab (after 2 claw hits in one round) to go with Maul.

[demiurge1138]

I sort of like them just having ranks in Climb without a climb speed, but it appears that giving them that speed is the consensus.

I like the Pandaemonic abilities.

[RavinRay]

Possible stats
Type: Outsider (chaotic)?
Powerful grip = rend
Poisonous bite: no secondary effect?
Damage reduction n/magic

[Shade]

How about DR 10/lawful? DR /magic is so weak, especially once characters are traveling the planes.

The bite of a tener is venomous and causes paralysis for 6-36 turns (save at -2).

Rather than making its bite inject poison, how about just modifying the carrion crawler's paralysis ability?

Paralysis (Ex): Those hit by a carrion crawler's tentacle attack must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 2d4 rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based.

6-36 turns equates to 1 to 6 hours!

The save at -2 implies Ability Focus or a racial bonus to the save DC.


For the improved grab/maul, which approach do you prefer?

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a tener must hit an opponent of any size with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can maul.

Maul (Ex): A tener grappling an opponent with two or more of its claws deals automatic bite damage each round it maintains the grapple.

-OR-

Maul (Ex): A tener that hits an opponent with two or more of its claw attacks immediately hits with its subsequent bite attack.

This is how we did it with the mara...no improved grab at all. More like rend. We can still give it improved grab, but needn't tie the maul to it.

[demiurge1138]

I like the mara version.

Agreed to Ability Focus as one of the feats. Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack might also be good choices, but we can put that off a bit, perhaps.

[freyar]

Now that I think about it, I think we called the improved grab version "chew." Too confusing. I would go with maul (rend version), but I think the original text supports improved grab with the whole bend bars bit:

The tener has a powerful grip. If it scores a hit with two of its hands, it holds its victim, striking at +3 “to hit” with its other two sets of claws and biting (at +3 “to hit”) for 1-2 points of damage. The bite of a tener is venomous and causes paralysis for 6-36 turns (save at -2). Individuals held by a tener attack at -3 “to hit”. A character’s chance of breaking a tener’s grasp is equal to his chance of bending bars, checked on any round that the attempt is made. No other action is possible for the character during such a round.

I like the carrion crawler version of paralysis for the venom.

Those feats appeal, but we can revisit them when we're done with SAs.

[Shade]

Updated.

PSIONIC ABILITY: 140
Attack/Defense Modes: ED/G

Give 'em psi-like abilities (or "psionics" for the non-psionic version), or discard the psionics like most 3e outsiders did?

[freyar]

I'd like to give them something, but "psionics" seems kind of redundant with the SLAs they have. I say either make them fully psionic with Ps abilities or else just add on appropriate SLAs.

[RavinRay]

Psionics in this case most likely refers to mind-affecting charm spells. We can label it as psionics (sp) like the couatl for instance.

[freyar]

Right, but the couatl doesn't also have regular SLAs. Having both Spell-like Abilities (Sp) and Psionics (Sp) seems redundant to me.