Converting World of Greyhawk monsters

[Knight Otu]

Originally Posted by BOZ

this is a debate we’ve had going for awhile now, and I’m still not sure what to think. Oh, Mr. SRD…? The idea is, does a constrict attack deal have a damage bonus of Str or Str 1 ½?

Apparently, both is possible. Couatls, for example use Str 1 1/2, behirs use Str.

[Shade]

Originally Posted by BOZ

it could, but in the end I don’t think I want it to. given the need for Intimidate and Disguise that I feel this fellow needs, I need to decide whether to leave the Cha at 11 or make it higher. I could just go by ranks on those skills though.

Cool.

Originally Posted by BOZ

I thought something was amiss. so “or dagger +17/+12/+7 ranged (1d4+7/19-20)” should cover throwing 3 daggers?

Yep.

Originally Posted by BOZ

this is a debate we’ve had going for awhile now, and I’m still not sure what to think. Oh, Mr. SRD…? The idea is, does a constrict attack deal have a damage bonus of Str or Str 1 ½?

Originally Posted by Knight Otu

Apparently, both is possible. Couatls, for example use Str 1 1/2, behirs use Str.

Your SRD cannot help you now. Based on Knight Otu's findings, it's up to us. I'd go with Str and 1/2 for this fella, since he only constricts with one appendage, and its a big 'un.

Originally Posted by BOZ

that’s all good. And yes, Str-based will make it harder to resist.

My thoughts exactly.

Originally Posted by BOZ

any idea for a good name?

Hmmm....how about: Eldritch Awareness, Supernatural Senses, or Arcane Discernment?

[BOZ]

Originally Posted by Shade

Your SRD cannot help you now. Based on Knight Otu's findings, it's up to us. I'd go with Str and 1/2 for this fella, since he only constricts with one appendage, and its a big 'un.

do I need to call eric's grandma in here?

but yes, that idea makes me vewwy vewwy happy - +10 damage bonus it is!

Originally Posted by Shade

Hmmm....how about_: Eldritch Awareness, Supernatural Senses, or Arcane Discernment?

arcane awareness?

has anyone looked through either of the modules enough to get a good idea of who we might find this guy with?
Organization: Solitary or cult (X)

Skills: (16 ranks) Disguise +X, Intimidate +X
Other skills he could benefit from:
Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Swim, Tumble

[Shade]

Originally Posted by BOZ

do I need to call eric's grandma in here?

Gee, I hope not!

Originally Posted by BOZ

arcane awareness?

Works for me.

Originally Posted by BOZ

has anyone looked through either of the modules enough to get a good idea of who we might find this guy with?
Organization: Solitary or cult (X)

Nope. I don't have 'em.

Originally Posted by BOZ

Skills: (16 ranks) Disguise +X, Intimidate +X
Other skills he could benefit from:
Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Swim, Tumble

How about: Bluff 5 (granting +2 synergy bonus to both Disguise and Intimidate), Disguise 5, Intimidate 5, Tumble 1 (since it can't be used untrained). The Hand's good Str and Dex should provide nice modifiers to the other skills you listed. One thing is for certain: I'd love to see this guy swim!

[BOZ]

He could probably swim just fine. I don’t think that third hand should encumber him, in fact it would make him more aerodynamic if used properly. And he probably doesn’t need to breath either, unless he breathes through his pores or something.

OK, I’ll have to study the modules a bit to see what kind of an entourage to give him, if any.

CR… 10-12?

[Shade]

He couldn't possibliy look any goofier in the water than a tojanida!

CR 11. He's about on par with a hezrou or hamatula, which are both CR 11. What he lacks in resistances and spell-likes, he makes up for in sheer number of attacks and strength damage.

[BOZ]

OK, i have looked through the modules to gain a bit of insight on the Eye and the Hand. a bit of SPOILERS below (though not much) if you were ever going to play in them.

Vecna Lives!

on p 18-19, these guys appear for the first time. it is noted here that the Eye carries a chime of interruption. in this encounter, they travel with 6 4th-level fighters calling themselves "The Blood of Vecna", a priest of vecna (C9/W5), 4 4th-level rogues called the "Fingers of Vecna", and an NPC they are working with. it also revealed here that the Hand is controlled by command words from the Book of Pain, which cause "agonizing magical tortures" for the Hand, and which a priest can use in case the Hand gets out of control.

p 74 - it is revealed here that the cult is ruled by a high priestess called the Heart of Vecna (C16/W 5), and they are her lueitenants. for reference, her stats are on page 80.


Die Vecna Die!

in this module, they play a much lesser role. in fact, they were just about replaced by two golems with even stranger appearances than theirs. they appear at the end of the module in the city of Sigil, and were actually resurrected by Vecna due to an odd fondness for them. here they are not with the cult of Vecna anymore - they are serving the god directly by presiding over services and training new followers of the god. he likes them so much, he automatically resurrects them any time a PC kills one.

there is really no further information that this module can add, as far as i can tell.


so, what have we learned...

how about this:

Organization: Solitary or cult (Hand and Eye, plus 1-3 clerics of level 8-12, plus 5-10 fighters of level 2-6, plus 2-7 rogues of level 3-6)

or something like that?

[Shade]

Originally Posted by BOZ

in this module, they play a much lesser role. in fact, they were just about replaced by two golems with even stranger appearances than theirs

Cool! Are these guys statted out so we can convert 'em.

Originally Posted by BOZ

how about this:

Organization: Solitary or cult (Hand and Eye, plus 1-3 clerics of level 8-12, plus 5-10 fighters of level 2-6, plus 2-7 rogues of level 3-6)

or something like that?

I likee.

The standard seems to be "plus 2-7 rogues of 3rd-6th level" rather than "of level 3-6", just to nitpick.

[BOZ]

Originally Posted by Shade

Cool! Are these guys statted out so we can convert 'em.

oh yes, they are, but only in abbreviated stat block form. For other information we’ll have to pull text from the module. If you want to do them next that’s fine, but there’s a waiting list of unfinished conversions I’d like to get to first.

Originally Posted by Shade

I likee.

The standard seems to be "plus 2-7 rogues of 3rd-6th level" rather than "of level 3-6", just to nitpick.

That’s fine, nitpick away… as long as it is productive and not just whiny.

OK, updating Handy-man in homebrews. Looks good to me. Looks good to you?

[Shade]

Originally Posted by BOZ

oh yes, they are, but only in abbreviated stat block form. For other information we’ll have to pull text from the module. If you want to do them next that’s fine, but there’s a waiting list of unfinished conversions I’d like to get to first.

I'm fine either now or later. It might be easier now since the module is fresh in our minds. Besides, golems are almost always fast conversions.

Originally Posted by BOZ

OK, updating Handy-man in homebrews. Looks good to me. Looks good to you?

It sure does. That was one smooth conversion.

[BOZ]

smooth, yeah, EVENTUALLY.

let me get some stuff together for Mr. Eye. maybe later today, but just as likely not until tomorrow.

[BOZ]

EYE, captain!

The more I think about it, detect thoughts is just wrong, wrong, wrong. There is no indication whatsoever that it can read people’s minds. What it does have is a sense of the immediately future. It knows what someone is going to say, not because it can read their mind, but because it can read the future. If a person says “attack this thing from the back!” then the Eye knows what it is going to do ahead of time. If the person says no such thing, then the Eye would still know that someone was going to attack, because it would “see” the attacker before he attacked. A lot of the combat application of this power is in the insight bonus to AC and the uncanny dodge power. I could see giving it an insight attack bonus as well. As for the knowing what someone is going to say, if there is no appropriate 3.5 ability for reading the future then we should just make that flavor text and stop agonizing over it. so, detect thoughts is officially out.

These spell-likes were being worked on before, but we kind of left off with them:

Spell-Like Abilities: The following abilities are always active on the Eye’s person, as the spells (caster level 12th); clairaudience/clairvoyance, detect magic, find traps, and true seeing. They can be dispelled, but the Eye can reactivate them as a free action.

Also, since “it cannot be surprised, as long as it is awake”, is there a way to make it immune to surprise, or would making immune to being caught flat-footed like the Hand keep it active during a surprise round?

Originally Posted by Shade

Alertness and/or Improved Init as bonus feats, racial bonus to Spot and Listen, or even an insight bonus to initiative, Spot, and/or Listen could cover this as well.

Should we give it low-light vision and darkvision? All-around vision? Blindsight/sense? An additional Search & Spot bonus? I can’t see giving it bonuses to listen checks, actually.

There is really only one big issue left to resolve, and that is the psychic tracking sense power. Here is the original description, as a reminder:

Originally Posted by Vecna Lives!

The Eye's primary purpose is as a psychic tracker for the priests of Vecna. Once the Eye has seen an intelligent being – either directly or through scrying - it can sense that creature's aura over large distances. The range depends on the abilities of the player character. Those with no spellcasting ability can be detected only within a one-mile radius. Those with any spellcasting abilities are detectable at a radius in mules equal to their spell level. Thus a 12th level wizard (who is able to cast spells up to 6th level) is detectable within a six-mile radius.

The Eye's tracking ability is not infallible. Large concentrations of magical energy can shield a target's aura. Artifacts, stockpiles of magic items, or even areas with a high preponderance of spellcasters all have this effect. For example, simply entering the Guild of Wizardry is enough to block the Eye's tracking sense. In doubtful cases, the Eye must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell to retain the "scent."

Here is what we had so far:

“Tracking Sense” (Su): The eye has the ability to sense an intelligent creature’s aura over long distances, if it has seen the creature directly or through scrying. The Eye can detect most creatures up to 1 mile away. Creatures with spellcasting abilities are detectable at a range in miles equal to their total caster levels (or, like the text, a number or miles equal to the highest level of spells they can cast?).

To track a creature’s aura, the Eye must succeed on a DC X (knowledge arcana? Gather information? Search?) check. If it fails the check, the Eye can retry after (1 hour) of meditation. If successful, the Eye can sense the creature as if by the locate creature spell.

This tracking ability can be blocked if the creature is within X feet of a large concentration of magical energy, such as an artifact, a stockpile of magic items, or at least (three?) other spellcasters. In such an instance, the Eye must succeed on a DC X Will save or lose the ability to track the creature’s aura until it leaves the source of magical energy. Running water does not block this ability.

Originally Posted by Shade

Caster level is probably a good idea, as it helps with those situations where a creature has a spell-like ability that doesn't mimic a specific spell. I'd go with the Search check. Go with the standard 30 feet for the "large concentration of magical energy"?

[Shade]

Hmm....some time away from this may have been just what we needed.

First, lets borrow this from the epic psuedonatural creature template:

"Constant Insight (Su): The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target."

Scaling that down to non-epic proportions, and rolling it in with other abilities, I come up with this:

Future Insight (Su): The Eye can "see" into the future at all times. This grants it a +X insight bonus to AC. The Eye makes all its attacks with a +5 (?) insight bonus, and is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. The Eye retains its Dexterity bonus to AC even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. Additionally, the Eye has a +X insight bonus to initiative and always acts in a surprise round.

[BOZ]

Hmm, I like it, but I would remove the “see into the future” part. Maybe, “The Eye has a precognitive insight that grants it a +X insight bonus to AC.” Were we going to make the bonuses akin to its Wisdom modifier?

And we can remove uncanny dodge if we are folding it into this insight power.

Thoughts on the spell-like abilities, vision issues, and tracking sense?

[Shade]

Agreed. I like the precognitive insight better.

Equal to Wisdom modifier...I don't remember.

Uncanny dodge...yes, remove as it is rolled into other ability now.

Definitely low-light vision and darkvision. I'd also like to see blindsight. Since it is just "one big eye", all-around vision probably doesn't fit. +4 racial bonus to Spot and Search?

The spell-likes we had look fine to me. Were we missing some?

Perhaps for the psychic tracking, we could incorporate the faint/moderate/strong/overwhelming bit from detect magic (like a cleric's aura for the purposes of detect chaos/good/evil/law)?