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"This game will bury you" vs. "This game is a flash-in-the-pan"!
hi all,
Wondering what games that are being played now do people here think has what it takes to last...
Personally I am a firm believer that its not much of a prediction to say that D&D will bury most other games.. and that D20 is the way of the future, that people will be playing the D20 system for a loooong time to come.
But there are others that are harder to judge. I got to thinking about this after a recent debate in another medium where someone tried to tell me that Nobilis was the "new" diceless game to replace all others, and I told him that Amber Diceless had 20 years to Nobilis' 3, and Amber would bury nobilis.
So.. what game settings or systems will be around in 10 or 20 years, and which really hot games right now are destined to be a flash in the pan of mainstream popularity the way many other RPGs have been (anyone remember when Deadlands was the hottest new game around)? Ideally, back up your choices with reasons why you think it is so. "I don't like system x" is not enough of a reason.
Call of Cthulhu will continue to be the "D&D" of horror games, in that it's the standard by which all other horror games are judged. It may be on its 87th edition or something silly like that, but it remains a fantastic game with loyal adherents. I doubt any other horror game will uproot it.
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Call of Cthulhu will continue to be the "D&D" of horror games, in that it's the standard by which all other horror games are judged. It may be on its 87th edition or something silly like that, but it remains a fantastic game with loyal adherents. I doubt any other horror game will uproot it.
That's probably true. I believe it's on it's sixth edition, but "reprint" would be a closer term since about the third edition or so.
Then again, it's gone d20 as well; my d20 Call of Cthulhu book is probably my favorite gamebook in my entire collection.
Traveller, in some form or another, will still cling to the mantle of hard(ish) sci fi grand-daddy of all games for a while yet, I imagine. GURPS and d20 really seem to have give that game a new lease on life.
Then again, it's gotta mean something that both of those have "gone d20" to survive, or at least to drum up more support.
If the past is any indication, a game called "Dungeons & Dragons" will probably burry us all. Whether that game will remotely resemble the games called "Dungeons & Dragons" in the past or the game currently called "Dungeons & Dragons" is doubtful.
Call of Cthulhu will continue to be the "D&D" of horror games, in that it's the standard by which all other horror games are judged. It may be on its 87th edition or something silly like that, but it remains a fantastic game with loyal adherents. I doubt any other horror game will uproot it.
Agreed, regardless of how many people speak of the wonders of Unknown Armies (and I like UA!), CoC will bury it, and many other "horror" games to come.
What I'm interesting in is seeing the strength of some of these lsicensed games. Buffy/Angel have a strong fanbase in the RPG community even though they haven't put a book out for them in 10 months. Babylon 5 seems like a big hit for Mongoose and it has been off the air for a while as well.
Rifts will be around for a while, I means its been 15 years and its still going strong. Say what you will about the system (and I've said plenty), but it does well in the sales.
I agree that people will be playing d20 for a long time to come - the system is too strong and simple to fall away, and its lack of solid definition (in that it can be applied to many different rules sets and genres) means that it can be molded as gaming trends change.
BRP Cthulhu also follows this trend. Its basic mechanic and heck, it's basic rules core is so simple that people can pick it up easily. (Kevin, wasn't it you who said you GM'ed it for years BEFORE you ever saw the rulebook?) Sandy Petersen and his nigh-perfect Runequest adaptation will be a gaming standard for the foreseeable future.
Other games I think will last the test of time? Feng Shui. For over-the-top cinema action, it's one of the best out there - and as films like Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon and Hero gain popularity in the U.S., the appeal of this game will keep growing. I myself only discovered it recently, and its simplistic approach to emphasizing action first cannot be underestimated. I could probably get a non-gamer to game with this system quicker than any other system - Action Movie fans are more ubiquitous than even fantasy novel fans, and who wouldn't want to vicariously live out the action with minimal effort?
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If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
What I'm interesting in is seeing the strength of some of these lsicensed games. Buffy/Angel have a strong fanbase in the RPG community even though they haven't put a book out for them in 10 months. Babylon 5 seems like a big hit for Mongoose and it has been off the air for a while as well.
Rifts will be around for a while, I means its been 15 years and its still going strong. Say what you will about the system (and I've said plenty), but it does well in the sales.
Rifts confuses me. I KNOW there are fans out there - I see the books for sale online, I see the fans online, I see the books occasionally at used bookstores in larger cities - but I don't know a SINGLE SOLITARY RIFTS fan in northeastern South Carolina. I've seen D&D fans, COC fans, White Wolf Fans, Battletech Fans - heck, I've seen Shadowrun fans counting on one hand - but not once have I run into anyone in a 100-mile radius of where I live who ever played RIFTS. Is it a regional thing, as D&D used to be in the 70's?
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
So.. what game settings or systems will be around in 10 or 20 years, and which really hot games right now are destined to be a flash in the pan of mainstream popularity the way many other RPGs have been (anyone remember when Deadlands was the hottest new game around)?
I think that D&D and the World of Darkness will be around in perpetuity is pretty much a given.
As for what's "hot"...
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of d20/OGL games fall by the wayside, but it depends. I can see M&M sticking around as one of the "definitive" supers RPGs, but I honestly don't see Conan in it for the long haul. Spycraft I'd give a 50/50 chance. Just a gut feeling.
I'd also cast a vote for Buffy/Angel and Unisystem in general. I can see Uni enjoying its niche for a long time to come. I also have a feeling that Luke Crane's Burning Wheel might have what it takes to break out of the indie RPG ghetto and become a successfull niche FRPG.
Hmm... I have a hard time putting my finger on anything else that's "hot". All of the best stuff that's not OGL is comprised of new editions of games that have been around for a while: WoD, HERO, GURPS.
Ironically, regarding the Deadlands reference. My gut says that Savage Worlds will be but a faint memory in ten years...
This is a tough question. How many not-D&D RPGs have any sort of significant lifespan?
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Quote:
what game settings or systems will be around in 10 or 20 years
Shadowrun
I've just started to get back into and I'm finding a very strong and devoted fanbase.
Quote:
back up your choices with reasons why you think it is so
Well in SR's case, it's definitely not the ruleset. In its 15 years, it has already gone through 3 revisions and changed publishers. That's a lot more than the 3 D&D editions.
Why do I think this is the case? The world, setting, and the writing. No other setting is as instantly immersive and identifyable as SR IMO. Some of the best "fluffy" books of all time are SR books, like the Seattle Sourcebook.
Plus I think people just like a game where morality exists in a gray area and you can carry big guns.
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TRi state needs to also be mentioned. While it isn't the biggest thing, Gaurdians of the Order have a good product and some devoted fans. I really knew little of them before this summer but they have quickly impressed myself along with many others gamers I know.
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Quote:
D20 is the way of the future
While I think D&D 4ed will still be d20, it's going to look and feel a lot different IMO. I expect some significant changes to the d20 system to come along with D&D 4ed.
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I feel I have to put a vote in here for my favorite non-D&D/d20 game and that would be Shadowrun. It's been around since the late '80s and has a pretty devoted fanbase. It doesn't put out too many books, but those that are put out are among the most entertaining to read game books of any system I've ever seen. Certainly head and shoulders above the majority of the d20 books that I've seen.
The setting itself is also pretty flexible for gamers of all types. Depending on what your group likes, you can emphasize different elements, like the fantasy elements (magic, immortal elves, dragons) or the cyberpunk elements (the matrix, cyberware, dark, grungy cities under the control of faceless corps) or whatever else one wants to pick out of it.
It'll never be as big as some of the others (d20, WoD, probably), but I don't see it going anywhere, unforeseeable circumstances notwithstanding.
EDIT: Well, I see that GlassJaw beat me to the punch while I was writing this.
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I also see d20 staying around for a long time. It assimilates things too easy. I mean with a little time you can put it into almost any Genre. Horror as mentioned, Wrestling, Modern, Eastern, Sci-Fi, Western. Yep I think that it is here to stay.
As for 4th ed. I am just not sure. I agree that there will be a different feel, and maybe a different play style, though I am not sure what direction that is going at the moment.
As for 4th ed. I am just not sure. I agree that there will be a different feel, and maybe a different play style, though I am not sure what direction that is going at the moment.
I don't forsee any major changes to 4th or subsequent editions of D&D, at least not for a long time. WotC have found an excellent core system. We'll probably see incremental changes a la 3e to 3.5e, but it's going to look the same, I'm betting.
__________________ If knowledge of a game's plot would spoil its experience, it isn't a game.
... A player cannot learn of a game's ending without experiencing it, because a game is not a linear object.
—Mike Mearls
I wish you people would stop going around talking about 4th edition like that. It's been "4th edition this," "4th edition that," for quite a while now. You're going to invoke something fearsome, I swear! I feel like everyone is wandering around going "Hastur...Hastur...Hastur..."
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Last edited by Lonely Tylenol; 16th September 2004 at 12:01 AM..
Rifts confuses me. I KNOW there are fans out there - I see the books for sale online, I see the fans online, I see the books occasionally at used bookstores in larger cities - but I don't know a SINGLE SOLITARY RIFTS fan in northeastern South Carolina. I've seen D&D fans, COC fans, White Wolf Fans, Battletech Fans - heck, I've seen Shadowrun fans counting on one hand - but not once have I run into anyone in a 100-mile radius of where I live who ever played RIFTS. Is it a regional thing, as D&D used to be in the 70's?
I've wondered about this too. I've visited gaming stores in Edmonton, Seattle, Toronto, and Vancouver, and every one of them had TONS of RIFTS stuff. Who are all these RIFTS fans? And *where* are they? Is it true that RIFTS fans are the lepers of the RPG community, and spend all their time huddled together at palladiumbooks.com?
__________________ What’s wrong with a fixed set of rules and sticking with ‘em? Huh? I mean, it’s like worked for chess for like five hundred frickin’ years, hasn’t it? They don’t go overhauling the rules of baseball every season. Even board games have fixed rules. When’s the last time you had to run out and buy Monopoly 2.5?
No one seems to have mentioned Paranoia. It has been around for 20 years with a devout following, and has even survived going out of print for years. Now with the new edition, which is by all accounts selling very well, I expect it to be around for a long time to come.
I got to agree with Henry about Feng Shui. Its simple, fast paced, and fun(in the over the top kind of way).
It may not be a game thats played all the time, but for people who have played it chances are it will be one of their top five games.
P.S. Henry I am a Rifts fan so reply and be able to say you have had communicated with a person who plays Rifts.
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Last edited by Darren Ravenshaw; 16th September 2004 at 12:19 AM..
Reason: spell error
Agreed about Call of Cthulhu. I think that it has lots of staying power.
I am not sure about Supers games. I definitely think Champions has lasted quite awhile but I think that Mutants and Masterminds may have the power to last awhile but it may be too early to tell.
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