Greenwood on FR npcs

[Dragonbait]

Originally Posted by CarlZog

I've been listening to the podcasts from GenCon today, and just listened to this interview with Ed Greenwood.

I'm no FR expert by a LONG stretch, but I know that there have long been complaints about all the high-powered NPCs. It was nice to hear their creator saying essentially, "get 'em out of there."

Carl

Agreed. There is an interview on Mortalityradio.net about this, and about his original concepts of the setting.
I was one of those GMs who tried to GM the setting, and keep the historical cannon in place, and had a very difficult time (of course, I placed the game in the Dalelands, which is the most detailed region...) AND I had players who kept pushing for me to use the uber-NPCs from novels that I did not read (Elminster, some of the Sisters, and so on.)

[an_idol_mind]

Originally Posted by Dragonbait

I was one of those GMs who tried to GM the setting, and keep the historical cannon in place, and had a very difficult time (of course, I placed the game in the Dalelands, which is the most detailed region...) AND I had players who kept pushing for me to use the uber-NPCs from novels that I did not read (Elminster, some of the Sisters, and so on.)

When I ran the setting, my biggest problem was that the NPCs always seemed to work their way into the PCs' backgrounds. Every mage was one of Elminster's apprentices, and any ranger in the north had run into Driz'zt at some point in the background.

[Faraer]

Originally Posted by WayneLigon

I've always been curious about just how much resemblance to Ed's original world is left in the published FR stuff.

We know this in some detail. The central Realms (which Jeff Grubb named the Heartlands), up to the time of the Old Grey Box (1357 DR), is very close to Ed's Realms; beyond those regions, and into the TSR/WotC ongoing timeline, less so. Factor in stuff like the Code of Ethics, and Henry's point that Ed's Realms isn't unchanging. However, Ed's underlying setting has proved amazingly resilient and keeps poking out from under the cruft -- unsurprisingly, as he's still its most prolific author and several other current writers (more than in the early 1990s, in fact) are 'on his side'. The gap is more in how the later setting is presented than in how it works.

[Banshee16]

Originally Posted by an_idol_mind

When I ran the setting, my biggest problem was that the NPCs always seemed to work their way into the PCs' backgrounds. Every mage was one of Elminster's apprentices, and any ranger in the north had run into Driz'zt at some point in the background.

So let the player's character know him. Then, further into the campaign, the character finds out that though he met Drizzt and hung out with him, Drizzt is actually annoyed by the guy, and finds him a little stalker-ish. Elminster may have been the character's teacher for a period....but it wasn't because the character had promise, but because of a promise Elminster had made to the character's grandmother, or something like that....

I haven't really had a significant problem with the NPCs, because I've usually started my FR games in small towns, where guys like Elminster are a distant legend.

It's a campaign setting with literally *millions* of NPCs....it stands to reason that there are going to be some who are pretty powerful. I personally dislike running games where the PCs are the centre of the entire world.

Banshee

[an_idol_mind]

Originally Posted by Banshee16

So let the player's character know him. Then, further into the campaign, the character finds out that though he met Drizzt and hung out with him, Drizzt is actually annoyed by the guy, and finds him a little stalker-ish. Elminster may have been the character's teacher for a period....but it wasn't because the character had promise, but because of a promise Elminster had made to the character's grandmother, or something like that....

I haven't really had a significant problem with the NPCs, because I've usually started my FR games in small towns, where guys like Elminster are a distant legend.

It's a campaign setting with literally *millions* of NPCs....it stands to reason that there are going to be some who are pretty powerful. I personally dislike running games where the PCs are the centre of the entire world.

Banshee

The actual games I ran in the Realms went fine, so the PCs being associated with the NPCs wasn't a problem per se. The problem was that every player seemed to want to tie himself to one of the world's major NPCs, which sort of tied them to the big guys' apron strings. It's like they thought that they weren't good enough to be heroes in the world unless they had some association to characters from the novel line.

I'm not listing that as a problem with the Realms. I ran some of my best adventures in the Realms, and enjoyed the years that I used it as my setting. At the same time, I've enjoyed my homebrew game more, but that's almost always going to be the case when comparing a homebrew campaign versus a published setting.

[Banshee16]

Originally Posted by an_idol_mind

The actual games I ran in the Realms went fine, so the PCs being associated with the NPCs wasn't a problem per se. The problem was that every player seemed to want to tie himself to one of the world's major NPCs, which sort of tied them to the big guys' apron strings. It's like they thought that they weren't good enough to be heroes in the world unless they had some association to characters from the novel line.

I'm not listing that as a problem with the Realms. I ran some of my best adventures in the Realms, and enjoyed the years that I used it as my setting. At the same time, I've enjoyed my homebrew game more, but that's almost always going to be the case when comparing a homebrew campaign versus a published setting.

Hey, big guys have big enemies. Maybe the players will think twice about wanting to be Elminster's apprentice when they're 2nd lvl, and Manshoon or Fzoul decide to get some leverage on Elminster by sending some 10th lvl goons to kidnap the apprentice and hold him hostage, to keep Elminster from interfering with some other plan....and possibly sending the apprentice back to Elminster in pieces.

Just like how the PCs friends and families can make good targets for villains, and good sources of storylines for the DM, a PC who is friends with a mover and shaker might find that being friends with such a famous person can attract the wrong attention, when he's not high enough level to deal with the kinds of threats that NPC generates through his enemies.

Just some ideas...

Banshee

[DeadlyUematsu]

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/zirta.htm

Interesting story. It really did have a strong REH influence. I also found Elminister's entrance with Alustriel and Storm hilarious.

[Paka]

Originally Posted by an_idol_mind

As much as I generally avoid the Realms these days, Ed Greenwood seems to be the type of guy who I'd like to game with.

Jeff and I said the same thing when we were done interviewing him.

[Ghostwind]

Ed is a hoot to game with. I wish I got the chance more often.

[Paka]

Originally Posted by Ghostwind

Ed is a hoot to game with. I wish I got the chance more often.

C'mon, do tell.

[Mystery Man]

Originally Posted by Ghostwind

Ed is a hoot to game with. I wish I got the chance more often.

The slight pangs I'm feeling right now are not jealousy. They're not. I mean it....

[KaosDevice]

(just tossing in my .02$)

I've ran several FR games since the late 80's where the Uber-NPCs weren't even mentioned. It really isn't all that difficult imho.

[Ghostwind]

Originally Posted by Mystery Man

The slight pangs I'm feeling right now are not jealousy. They're not. I mean it....

All I can say is Ed really knows how to get into character. And female NPCs are definitely fair game for seduction depending on his mood and the character he's playing.

[Ghostwind]

By the way, when Elminster makes an appearance, it's more to remind the group how incredibly stupid they were and how likely they are going to die. Elminster does not go around saving PCs. You get yourself into a mess, you had better figure out how to get out, even if you were hired by Elminster. I like Ed's version of El. He's a real bastard.

[The Forsaken One]

Most "powerfull" FR NPCs are severely underpowered for their CR. I can't imagine not totally destroying any of the powerfull NPCS a load of levels under their stated CR. They are severely undergeared, far from optimal spells, items, feats, skills, about everything. Not even to mention most of them have rediculously low hitpoints.

And those CR 40 Dragons dont even come close to being CR 40 :/. Ah well the CR system goes down the drain over level 20 anyway .

And my players dont love nothing more then rinsing powerfull / famous FR nps hehe.