General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Oddly enough, Shil, I was just checking Amazon for the new Star Wars Saga Edition's release date... and ended up reading all I could about WFRP ed2. I think I pretty much sold.
Now my big question is: can I use it to run CITY? Because I'll try... oh I'll try.
I'd say CITY is currently a fair bit higher in magic (which would need it's own writeup) and you also have a fair amount of creatures and careers that you'd have to design yourself.
That's actually y only gripe with the system- It's so ingrained in the setting that it's hard to homebrew with it.
I'm not really a fan of the old world. Except for skaven of course. Everyone loves skaven.
I keep hearing about this Caribbean campaign. Do You use the mechanics and real world or have you placed the game in WFRP setting? (I don't know if there are any islands near Lustria).
Well, it's not mine but since so far I'm the only one who's mentioned it--Rel has been bouncing ideas about the campaign off me in the Circvs chatroom for months, so I feel like I know the setting more or less.
It's kinda a hybrid of the real world and the Warhammer world. It does include the Empire and Bretonnia, although it takes place in distant colonies in the Caribbean. The New World features guys like lizardmen and skaven making important appearances.
But the geography and much of the political landscape is actually cribbed from the real world. Most of the action has taken place in and around or between Port Royale and Tortuga, for instance.
I guess I didn't realize how high your PCs had become lately; from what I remembered of the story hour I thought they'd fit in pretty nicely with those mechanics.
The Story Hour's about a year behind. Burne's come a long way, baby. Which is kinda the problem...
The current plan is to play around w/WHFR over the summer while one of our players summers out-of-country.
__________________ "We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way." -- Boyd, Dollhouse.
How complex / detailed are the rules of Warhammer FRP? How would it compare with D&D 3.5 for complexity?
The rules are detailed, but not complex. With a couple of books you can get started. There is always debate about what is essential and it does depend on the characters, but at a bare minimum I would suggest:
WFRP core
Old World Bestiary
Sigmar's Heirs
Realms of Sorcery (if you have mages or a magic heavy game)
Warhammer Companion (fairly inexpensive and has a lot of useful information)
Old World Armoury is not really necessary, but handy
3.5 is like a juggernaut of destruction with all of the rules, I switched to Warhammer, C&C and Atlantis: the Second Age to escape the overabundance of rules and options.
__________________ "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
---Benjamin Franklin
The rules are very simple. I read the book only once and almost know them all. The book often states that the GM is the boss when there are no rules for a particular situation.
What I like about the system is that one can create a full-stated advanced NPC in a matter of 5 minutes... or sometimes immediately in your mind, because there are no skill/level and feats/level etc and the stats are percentage.
Of course if one want more detailed rules, one can find them in supplements. "Tome of Corruption" has plenty for the Chaos-worshippers etc.
Damn. You guys have sold me; I ordered the core book from amazon the other day. I was getting pretty burned out on D&D 3.5 (you know, the whole "fifty million rules" thing). We don't all have the free time that folks such as Merric are blessed with; as a result, I've been finding it increasingly difficult to "master" D&D 3.5 to the degree that I, as a DM, want to.
Warhammer sounds like it's right up my alley. Just the titles of some of the books make me want to run it . . . plus, with the "brand recognition" factor of the "Warhammer" name, I'm hoping recruiting players will be easy.
WFRP core
Old World Bestiary
Sigmar's Heirs
Realms of Sorcery (if you have mages or a magic heavy game)
Warhammer Companion (fairly inexpensive and has a lot of useful information)
Old World Armoury is not really necessary, but handy
.
Companion is almost completely useless if You don't want "water-adventures".
I would suggest the corebook, Sigmar's Heir's, Realms of Sorcery (Tome of Salvation will be release for priests the following July)... and Tome of Corruption just for flavour (there are plenty of editing problems, but the book is great nevertheless... it was written by JR Schalb - the same guy who wrote Fiendish Codex II )
The rules are detailed, but not complex. With a couple of books you can get started. There is always debate about what is essential and it does depend on the characters, but at a bare minimum I would suggest:
In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that just the WFRP 2nd edition Core book is all you really need to make a test run. For such a slim book, it has all you need to run a small campaign and get the feel of the world. All the other books just serve to add options and extra setting flavor, but the core had me rivetted for weeks of reading!
I think the foremost thing to warn your players about, especially if they're used to 3E, is the "grim and gritty", and that success can be a little more struggle than in D&D. They shouldn't be afraid to play their PCs with gusto, but by the same token they shouldn't be afraid to lose one, too, especially if character creation is as easy as it is to get back in.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
Quite right, the core book to get you started and to ensure that your players will like the game is all you really need. Not everyone will like the horror aspects of the game or the danger of combat.
As Elsenrail elaborated upon my post: different people will suggest different books, it is an ongoing debate on the Black Industries forums. After the core book it might be handier to find a store that sells the books and thumb through to see what you need to fit your group better.
Most people will agree that you do not need the Paths of the Damned adventure series. You are much better served by getting the core book and downloading a free adventure from the Black Industries website. Warhammer v2 has some really good detail and handy rules, but for some reason the official adventures are lacking in many ways. I bought them for the additional rules and careers, the adventures themselves are very contradictory and non-linear as to be nonsensical at times.
__________________ "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
---Benjamin Franklin
I've bought quite a few of the supplements, but I would be very happy running WFRP with the core book and Old World Bestiary alone.
I'm going to go off the reservation a little just to warn anyone reading this thread and considering WFRP that, if you are looking for a "rules lite" system, WFRP may not be the way to go. The combat rules aren't quite as complex at D&D 3.5, but they are still heavily tactical and require some level of rules mastery to run smoothly as a GM. The one area where WFRP is really strong is in its much lower power curve. This ties into what Elsenrail mentioned above, it's very easy to stat out NPCs (no matter what "level" they might be) quickly, which is a huge timesaver compared to D&D in my experience. But I still wouldn't call WFRP "rules lite".
The new GM Screen comes in very handy for rules/combat resolution. The first screen for v2 was pretty bad, but luckily Black Industries asked people what they wanted and the new screen is a vast improvement. I would agree that combat is not necessarily easier rules-wise, but still much simpler than tearing through a dozen books to make sure all factors have been taken into consideration. Players learn rather quickly that jumping into fights on a whim leads to ugly scars and missing limbs soon enough.
__________________ "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
---Benjamin Franklin
Oh, I have forgotten. The Old World Bestiary is a must, indeed... However, it's not a typical monster book. The first half covers stories about monsters - different approaches (a mercenary, a scholar, the beast itself etc.). The best part of the book.
The first half covers stories about monsters - different approaches (a mercenary, a scholar, the beast itself etc.). The best part of the book.
Actually, may favorite part is Albrecht Kinnear railing about there being no chaos cults at a conference, and then one quote later, a witchhunter is arresting him for being in a chaos cult at the same conference.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
Well, it's not mine but since so far I'm the only one who's mentioned it--Rel has been bouncing ideas about the campaign off me in the Circvs chatroom for months, so I feel like I know the setting more or less.
It's kinda a hybrid of the real world and the Warhammer world. It does include the Empire and Bretonnia, although it takes place in distant colonies in the Caribbean. The New World features guys like lizardmen and skaven making important appearances.
But the geography and much of the political landscape is actually cribbed from the real world. Most of the action has taken place in and around or between Port Royale and Tortuga, for instance.
I've been out of town for work most of this week so thanks for answering on my behalf, Hobo.
That's the basics of it: My Old World is the Warhammer Old World. My New World is the real world New World. I still call South America "Lustria". I've swapped in the Empire in the place of England and Tilea for the Dutch in terms of who holds what colonies. I've kept Bretonia and Estalia as the French and Spanish respectively.
Right now the Empire and Estalia are at war and Bretonia is on the brink of entering the war on the side of Estalia.
I'll try and post more later tonight but it's been a lot of fun.
Hmm, interesting approach. I would love if You could tell us more about this campaign, especially who are the players (races, careers), what is the plot. I'm going to be a GM this summer (our current GM will work abroad the whole holidays) and I'm thinking about a campaign on the ship's deck... and with pirates on the horizon (or the damned Triton, be it a greater demon or just another seafolk ).
Hmm, interesting approach. I would love if You could tell us more about this campaign, especially who are the players (races, careers), what is the plot. I'm going to be a GM this summer (our current GM will work abroad the whole holidays) and I'm thinking about a campaign on the ship's deck... and with pirates on the horizon (or the damned Triton, be it a greater demon or just another seafolk ).
My schedule is super busy but I really love this campaign so I'm going to procrastinate for a few more minutes...
In terms of theme, I'm shooting for something between the extremely grim and gritty feel of regular WFRP and the high adventure of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. I'm also trying to have it stay true to a "piratey" feel with a lot of the action taking place on the high seas. One outgrowth of this desire was that I wanted a system to resolve ship to ship battles. So I developed one of my own and thus far it's worked better than I could have hoped, straddling the line between realism and playability fairly well. I can post more on that if you're interested.
We generated the PC's using a house-rule that excludes some of the more glamorous and martial careers as starting careers. We, as a group, like playing a "zero to hero" sort of theme so no Nobles and Mercenaries for us to start with. The roster of PC's came out thus:
Elf Ferryman
Elf Tradesman
Human Tomb Robber
Halfling Scribe
Halfling Bone Picker
The campaign opened with this sentence: "The hot, still air around you is filled with the reek of your own vomit as you awaken in chains." Charming, neh?
The PC's had been press ganged and thrown into the hold of a ship that was now a couple days out of Port Royal (which should have been renamed to "Port Imperial" but I dropped the ball). From this humble beginning the PC's actually grew a grudging respect for their (female, dwarf) captain. Under her command the PC's participated in the capture of an Estalian trade galleon and the defeat of a sloop full of Chaos Marauders before returning to Port Royal. After an episode where a secret organization tried to blow up the Captain's Council at the Governor's mansion in Port Royal, the PC's were loaned a ship and sent to Tortuga to try and uncover the nature of this conspiracy.
While in Tortuga* the PC's met some shady, underworld figures, fought a gang of slavers, ventured into the undead-infested Northtown, found their way into the sewers and almost (but not quite) got critical information on the conspiracy they were supposed to investigate. They made a daring escape from the harbor with rumors following them that they were rich and undercrewed, making them ripe for plunder (the second part of that rumor was correct). But they also managed to surprise and take a slave ship that was returning from a "mysterious island" where they supposedly delivered their slaves.
Their return to Port Royal saw them having to fight off privateers, weather a nasty storm and then fight another battle (undercrewed all the while) with the Estalians off the coast of Jamaica. They finally managed to limp into the harbor with two ships (neither of which they had originally set sail in). By this point they had all changed careers to look like this:
Elf Ferryman -> Seaman
Elf Tradesman -> Engineer (he can now fire the ship's cannons effectively)
Human Tomb Robber -> Seaman
Halfling Scribe -> Wrecker
Halfling Bone Picker -> Fence (he handles all their trade agreements, especially the illegal ones)
They settled up with their old captain which meant that they gave her a ship to replace the one of hers they'd lost but she paid them well for the bits of information they'd managed to dig up in Tortuga. They made a brief jaunt into the Jamaican jungles at the behest of a local wizard in order to open the Apprentice Wizard career to the Elf (ex)Ferryman/Seaman. But along the way he met a witch in the woods and decided to become a Hedge Wizard instead.
Then they set out on their most recent adventure that has them investigating the "mysterious island" on the charts that the slavers had. Thus far they've discovered that it appears to be inhabited by Orcs who were buying the slaves to work in a Warpstone mine. They also know that this island is inhabited by dinosaurs and probably some large, ape-like creature**. And that's about where we are right now.
I'm happy to answer any further questions as my schedule allows.
* I used the WFRP suppliment "Barony of the Damned" as my template for Tortuga and it worked extremely well with a bit of moving bits around. I used almost the whole book and in some ways it forms the skeleton of all kinds of plots in my campaign.
** Any resemblance between "Mysterious Island" and certain movies with islands inhabited by cannibalistic natives, dinosaurs and big apes is purely intentional.
One outgrowth of this desire was that I wanted a system to resolve ship to ship battles. So I developed one of my own and thus far it's worked better than I could have hoped, straddling the line between realism and playability fairly well. I can post more on that if you're interested.
IF? You know, Rel, sometimes you do ask the silliest questions!
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The campaign opened with this sentence: "The hot, still air around you is filled with the reek of your own vomit as you awaken in chains." Charming, neh?
My personal favorite start has been "You wake up dead," but that's very close behind
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** Any resemblance between "Mysterious Island" and certain movies with islands inhabited by cannibalistic natives, dinosaurs and big apes is purely intentional.
I like it. When I steal from something (as when I ported Skull Island, complete with feral drow living outside a giant-built wall, over to a mist-shrouded island near Xen'drik in my Eberron game) I often have a large sign nearby saying, "Pilfered from ..."
__________________ shilsen is broken - Crothian (and this is why)
My Eberron Story Hour. Updated September 19. Shifter madness, Dragon madness, Plane of Madness!
This seems to be a really fabulous campaign! Is there a topic here, on Enworld, where You describe the progress of the PCs. The whole idea is really well-designed... and Your players seem not to be power-players, because the elf didn't choose the apprentice wizard career. (which College does the mage in Port Royal belongs to/is he independent?) However, unfortunately (or fortunately), they don't have a spellcaster (I love spellcasting... too much*). And there are some wonderful spells in WFRP.
* My PC is only a anointed priest of Ranald... with some spells he's the luckiest memeber of the party.
Do You plan to involve any Chaos magic (like that from Tome of Corruption)? Those spells make people scary and are a good way to maintain grim atmosphere.
This seems to be a really fabulous campaign! Is there a topic here, on Enworld, where You describe the progress of the PCs.
Not at present. I've been very busy the last few months and I decided not to do a Story Hour thread on this campaign.
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The whole idea is really well-designed... and Your players seem not to be power-players, because the elf didn't choose the apprentice wizard career.
It probably helped that the witch had sex with him. Powergaming is pretty tough in WFRP in general given the way that the careers are structured and must be completed to at least a minimal degree before moving on. I'll also note that one of the book (Realms of Sorcery maybe?) has a progression for the Hedge Wizard to go to Witch. It's a dangerous way to cast magic but it's very flexible because you can pick spells from the other colleges of magic (but you've gotta pay double the normal XP cost).
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(which College does the mage in Port Royal belongs to/is he independent?) However, unfortunately (or fortunately), they don't have a spellcaster (I love spellcasting... too much*). And there are some wonderful spells in WFRP.
The Wizard didn't say which college he belonged to because the PC hadn't even learned petty magic yet. But yes, I like the whole WFRP magic system too. As for them not having a spellcaster, it hasn't caused them much of a problem yet. Though they have agreed that if the Elf is going to do ANY spellcasting on the ship then he MUST be in the crow's nest. They can't afford to have him spoiling all the food within (whatever the radius is) on board the ship if he rolls a Tzeench's curse!
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Do You plan to involve any Chaos magic (like that from Tome of Corruption)? Those spells make people scary and are a good way to maintain grim atmosphere.
Honestly I haven't given it much thought. One of the hallmarks of this campaign is that I'm never really planning more than one session in advance. When the PC's can weigh anchor and sail wherever they like it's best to keep your options open. In any event, there are a ton of plot hooks left dangling right now so we'll have to see what they bit on next.
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