General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
First edition rocked hard, and 2e looks like a general refinement.
Nitpics: I like Fmir, and I will miss the Jabberwock.
Can't help you with the Fmir but the Jabberwocks are in one of the supplements (can't remember which one right now, but I was just looking at them this last weekend)
Anyway I LOVE Warhammer (1st and 2nd but I really like 2nd rules soooo much more then 1st). YES, you suck when you first start out (and for a long time after that) but the charm comes from knowing that AND the fact that everyone sucks just as much, if not more, then you do
I run a game right now and we are having a great time. The players are all in their 2nd careers now and just starting to come into their own a bit and can do a few things pretty well and they are getting a bit cooky... and then they ran into some goblins and two of them almost died! Great fun
__________________ "life is pain princess, anyone telling your different is selling something"
Actually, may favorite part is Albrecht Kinnear railing about there being no chaos cults at a conference, and then one quote later, a witchhunter is arresting him for being in a chaos cult at the same conference.
Those are GREAT and I really like how the Bestiary is written out, with the fluff in front for the characters to read and the stats in back for the GM
__________________ "life is pain princess, anyone telling your different is selling something"
I switched over to running Warhammer Fantasy a few months ago and have not looked back. After years of playing D&D I found the change in pace refreshing. It is just a complete different type of game than D&D, in that way it was exactly what I was looking for.
My group found that the rules were very easy to learn. They love that they can't really plan their characters out for levels to come. They might look at future careers, but they realize that the direction of the campaign will determine the Careers available to them.
I'm running a campaign in Bretonnia that is called "The Messengers". Two of the players rolled up a Messenger and Coachman, so I made the campaign into a very serialistic campaign where they had a new message or delivery every session that ultimately leads into an adventure of some kind.
So far, it has been fantastic. While the combat is tough, I've yet to have any deaths. Just some insanity and lucky rolls. They've defeated ghostly knights, a mad necromancer and more without a character dying. I know that this is a rarity in Warhammer, and I keep waiting for the first character death to shock them back to reality.
Perhaps the Chaos Cultists they face this weekend will do just that.
An elf apprentice wizard in a humans' college? As far as I'm concerned the elves study magic by their own, with a little help of their own masters who reside in the Old World, then journey to Ulthuan and study the High Magic (something like DnD high level spells) there. In my team there is such an elf, but he has already advanced to the journeywizard career, co he can cast effective fire spells that burn the enemies with ease (2 fireballs do the job well as my priest of Ranald has noticed).
Of course it's only a game. The DM is the god.
yeah i know its unusual but the elfs player wanted it. We worked it out that there is some sort of hidden agenda thats gonna come up later on (when i am short of adventure ideas.) His player is really a fan of intrigue and rp. I really didnt see any reason not to accomadate him.
I have actually converted AoW to WFRPG, and have been having a blast. In 3E, my players just bowled into everything. Now, they study all possible options before charging in. It is great. Warhammer just takes so much less time to prep for. I don't have too know forty-thousand feats. Combat (while still favoring the PCs quite a bit), can get ugly with a crit. Thats the toss up, and the players know it. (The badass dwarven pitfighter (WFRPG 1e) ran into a the temple in Dourstones Mines, and got critted and dropped in one round by the x-bow weilding zombies!)
It has been great, and as such, will probably be awhile before we get back to D&D.
It is the game that made my players start thinking before actions. They have a lot of fun and enjoy sessions.
WFRP core, Old World Bestiary, Warhammer Companion, & Sigmar's Heirs
are the key books to me, followed by Skaven book, Realms of Sorcery & Old World Armoury. Border Kingdoms is interesting and I hope to be picking up the Vampire book this weekend.
D&D is a clean fantasy for the most part, while death and wounds are there, death does not hold fear to the players. WFRP is a darker game, you just don't worry about death but also taxes. An orc in warhammer is going to kick you butt for a hell of a long time, it is 50/50 on who may win, that is a single green skin. Oh, sickness and illness are nasty and common in WFRP.
I have seen where people have issues with careers but that is minor, you can get around it just by having advances but there is no fun in that. I also have my players tell me how they get together, I don't tell them, I just start the game.
__________________ Signature:
All I need is minions and I would rule the world.
I like what Black Industries are doing to support the game. The new Marienburg section on the website (I only caught a glimpse) is really interesting.
I don't have the Vampire's book, but I have seen the previews... These Vampire Lord (good art too!) career seems to be extremely powerful... fortunately, there are only a few of those undead kin who hold such power.
Rel -> if something happens in Your campiagn, write a post!
As promised, here is the stuff for my ship to ship battles. There's a general rules document as well as a ship "character sheet". There is also a worksheet that has three pages with crit charts, general guidelines on crew requirements and a "crew allocation" sheet. That last bit is something that I thought would be critical in combats but we haven't used it all that much.
As promised, here is the stuff for my ship to ship battles. There's a general rules document as well as a ship "character sheet". There is also a worksheet that has three pages with crit charts, general guidelines on crew requirements and a "crew allocation" sheet. That last bit is something that I thought would be critical in combats but we haven't used it all that much.
I've also noticed that it helps if you, ya know, attach the files.
Coincidentally i play my first WHFRP game next week for the first time in about 19 years (i used to play with the GW developers / employees when i lived down the road in nottingham).
My memory is that i didnt enjoy it very much and i cant recall why (well not much). I played loads of different rpg games and its something i never had on my 'i really wanna return to that game list'
I have the character generation summary and it looks way to random to me.
Also i always despised the green orc idea and everything being way too spikey and green and cartoony, or orangey if u r a dwarf.
Mechanically i cant recall much, but i didnt really like the flavour.
It looks like you roll a defence/parry/dodge or somesuch and i see no problem with a game having passive defences that cut out an unneccesary
I also dislike fate point/action point etc ideas. they always read to me as 'the mechanic has too much chance for flukey rolls that have very bad affects so ill add this to add a bit of balance'.
I played a mage last time and got fairly decent 'battle magic' so i figure i must have played it a bit as progress i believe is slow. I figured we played on of the early 'iconic' campaigns.
I see above people say it is simple as there arent 40,000 feats to learn. If it was a big commerical goer, believe me there would be a rapid output of splatbooks.
Guess ill see how it goes next wednesday
John
Last edited by JRR_Talking; 5th May 2007 at 01:21 AM..
Coincidentally i play my first WHFRP game next week for the first time in about 19 years (i used to play with the GW developers / employees when i lived down the road in nottingham).
My memory is that i didnt enjoy it very much and i cant recall why (well not much). I played loads of different rpg games and its something i never had on my 'i really wanna return to that game list'
I have the character generation summary and it looks way to random to me.
Also i always despised the green orc idea and everything being way too spikey and green and cartoony, or orangey if u r a dwarf.
Mechanically i cant recall much, but i didnt really like the flavour.
It looks like you roll a defence/parry/dodge or somesuch and i see no problem with a game having passive defences that cut out an unneccesary
I also dislike fate point/action point etc ideas. they always read to me as 'the mechanic has too much chance for flukey rolls that have very bad affects so ill add this to add a bit of balance'.
I played a mage last time and got fairly decent 'battle magic' so i figure i must have played it a bit as progress i believe is slow. I figured we played on of the early 'iconic' campaigns.
I see above people say it is simple as there arent 40,000 feats to learn. If it was a big commerical goer, believe me there would be a rapid output of splatbooks.
Guess ill see how it goes next wednesday
John
You will notice some changes and some elements that have remained the same. The over-the-top cartoonishness of the first edition is pretty much a thing of the past-the imagery is now more grim than it used to be. I don't make players roll randomly for careers because I enjoy running a themed game (gang of thieves/cutthroats, band of mages on the run, mercenaries for hire [which means a group of assorted fighter types], etc) over a randomly generated smorgasbord, although there is nothing wrong with that either.
There are still Fate Points, but the game can be so brutal that they get used up quickly, not just in combat situations, which is nice. However you will see that there are no more alignments, it is just the world and the horrors of Chaos.
Black Industries have really outdone themselves as a game company in a couple of different areas. Firstly by providing excellent online material (obviously not possible in the late 80's) and secondly, they ask the consumers what they want and they listen. When the second edition came out there were two products, one for players and one for GMs, that met with more than a few complaints and suggestions. The folks at BI took the information and produced two more products, one for players and one for GMs, that really shine and have outdone the previous offerings.
I am not going to say that Warhammer is the game for you, it is still brutal, there are elements of horror and it is not like playing DnD; the knights you encounter can be just as bloodthirsty as the orcs that you will run into, and those orcs can serve your head to you on a platter. I hope you like the new edition and it is good that you are giving it another try.
__________________ "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
---Benjamin Franklin
Last edited by iron-spyder; 5th May 2007 at 07:30 PM..
warhammer is not like D&D, its brutal, dark and cold, and players will die. or thier characters will (i dont account for LARP nuts) its a great change of pace though for people wanting darker fantasy.
still seems v old fashioned to roll up random stats, get a charcater you may not quite like only to have it die quick / be fated to die cos chaos 'wins'. It does sound like fantasy CoC. i didnt like that either, but that was probably not keen on 20's era USA. Not keen on 'fighting the coming tide for a while, but in the end its hopeless' style of genres.
Dont get me wrong, i currently run a victorian campaign set in 1865 'real' world, not fantasy or tentacled horros, bits spiritualism and mesmerism. It is grim n dirty n smelly but run with as sense of 'hope'. I converted SPI dragonquest as my rules set and that can be fairly lethal.
D&D is very lethal too,. dont know why people think it isnt. Had big discussion on this on a UK rpg forum and chance of dying as starter D&D character is higher than 'chaosium-runequesty stuff'. I have just started playing in someones elses GURPS campaign too, that does seem lethal.
We also all co-GM a low magic D&D game as well. I dont like D&D once you hit 9th or so either.
and do bits of Liv Gre, that is 'ok', 'good' sometimes.
It may be another game system to many to squeeze in!!
Or im too picky n grouchy. I get to play RPG's twice a week while balancing the real world, so i shouldnt complain!!
i roll up n play 'Woof-Rup' in a few days so may report back.
ta for comments
John
Last edited by JRR_Talking; 5th May 2007 at 03:35 PM..
Despite being advertised as super deadly, our group has found that the lethality of Warhammer is not any worse than D&D and is perhaps a bit lower. The "extra lives" afforded by Fate Points seem to make the PC's a bit more durable.
I found that knowing I wouldn't die (by virtue of having one or more Fate Points in the bank) reduced my enjoyment of the game somewhat. When I started my current campaign I divorced the Fate Point mechanic from Fortune Points and kept the number of Fate Points for each character secret.
Since I couldn't tie Fortune Points to Fate Points anymore, I give each character the average Fortune Points for their race each day. I also award "Fortune Coins" (fake plastic pirate coins) when the party accomplishes something impressive. These are identical to Fortune Points except they can be saved up and used when the PC's are in a really desperate situation. They can also be spent to save the lives of valued NPC's (usually officers among the crew of their ship) but that's on a 3:1 ratio.
Also, since I'm running a more "swashbuckling" campaign, I let them spend Fortune Points to do "dramatic edits" where suddenly there is a rope for them to swing from or the enemy they are fighting trips on a coil of rope or steps in a bucket to facilitate things like Maneuvering and Disarming, etc.
The greater availability of Fortune Points no doubt makes the game a bit less deadly but we felt that way even before the house ruling for this campaign. However, since I'm a RBDM, it means I don't feel so bad when I throw extremely tough challenges at them and they burn a Fate Point or two.
Do You award them new Fate Points? In our campaign we are given one each 7-8 session - we don't have to make heroic deeds.
Tough challanges? A SEA TROLL?
In our games you have to do something amazing to get more fate points. Something BIG that alters the fates of many others. In our last campaign, I think we got 2 total, and one was for saving the life of the next Emperor.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
