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Heh, I wondered why there were two Fighters. Still, it kinda worries me how the people on that site talk gleefully about seeing Regdar maimed and dead in the artwork. Like violence is the solution to perceived...I'll stop there. Forum rules and all.
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I always liked Regdar.
I guess that makes me racist/sexist.
Though now I see him as more of an iconic Warlord instead of a Fighter. That seems to have been his original intent, as the apparent leader of the iconics group.
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I am a white male in a predominantly white country. But after watching Andromeda, cool warriors are black. So, I reject your stereotypes and substitute my own!
Marketing can be so incredibly ridiculously sexist and racist...
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I think, avoid race and gender because we've already been in that minefield recently, that the dead Redgars are a statement about marketing interfering with the creative vision.
I find it comparable to Battlestar Galactica, when marketing asked them to have "a birthday party or something" and they did the 1000th landing ceremony where like 7 people were killed. I think the dead Redgars are a message to marketing that says "If you force us to change our vision, we don't have a choice, but you're not going to like the end result."
I always liked Regdar.
I guess that makes me racist/sexist.
Liking Regdar doesn't make you racist/sexist by any means. Marketing people saying "we need a white male to be front and center" is racist and sexist. Very big difference there. Don't go looking for insults that aren't there. If you re-read it, Monte Cook never claims that fans who like the character are racist and sexist.
Individual fans making a choice to like a character is a far cry from marketing people presuming that ALL fans will ONLY like the character as long as he's a white male. Very different things. So feel free to gladly like Regdar without believing the Monte is condemning you.
I think, avoid race and gender because we've already been in that minefield recently, that the dead Redgars are a statement about marketing interfering with the creative vision.
I find it comparable to Battlestar Galactica, when marketing asked them to have "a birthday party or something" and they did the 1000th landing ceremony where like 7 people were killed. I think the dead Redgars are a message to marketing that says "If you force us to change our vision, we don't have a choice, but you're not going to like the end result."
If it were simply a case of this, the dead Regdar thing wouldn't have gone on so long, even extending into the 4E book -- where there are no pre-built characters! (far as I know, only read the opening chapters, races, classes, skills, feats, items, equipment, and combat chapters)
No, to me, there's clearly more malice going on than just getting back at the marketing people. Unless the thing in the Rituals chapter was just more re-used artwork.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
Mixed feelings. On one hand, the reasoning was terrible. On the other hand, the frat-boy jock stereotype IS awfully iconic, and if your goal was to make the iconics as generic as possible, it does make sense to have the white guy be the fighter.
No, to me, there's clearly more malice going on than just getting back at the marketing people. Unless the thing in the Rituals chapter was just more re-used artwork.
I don't think so. He's like Jar Jar Binks to the creative team, and I think that's the beginning and the end of it right there.
Liking Regdar doesn't make you racist/sexist by any means. Marketing people saying "we need a white male to be front and center" is racist and sexist. Very big difference there. Don't go looking for insults that aren't there. If you re-read it, Monte Cook never claims that fans who like the character are racist and sexist.
No, it's not. It's saying that the face of the game needs to be as universally appealing as possible because that's what sells. Marketing is nothing if not mercenary; if they thought they'd sell more books with a one-legged Asian albino on the cover, you'd bet your ass that's what'd be on there.
Someone not buying the game because one of the iconics was a minority (or not buying it because they *weren't* a minority) is racist and/or sexist.
The content guys are the ones that broke 'The Understanding' by intentionally tweaking the composition of the iconics to fit their pre-conceived notions of egalitarianism and what should appeal to gamers. They peed in Marketing's cornflakes, not the other way around.
I loathed Regdar. He was dull as ditchwater and he had one of those ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache that only a strange subsection of Americans between the ages of 21 and 30 seem to think is even remotely cool. Yeah, I hate characters for bad facial hair? Is that a problem? In a game with so much quality facial hair, he stood out as a beacon of bad beardage. He also reminds me of that unspeakably dull wanker who is the lead "character" in Gears of War and I use the term "character" advisedly because he has No Percievable Personality (apart from "Badass" in the most retarded way possible) and was evidently designed for maximum quasi-frat-boy appeal. When I saw Regdar dead in the rituals chapter I have to admit, my mouth quirked up into a little smile.
Then again when I saw stone'd Regdar in the MM. It really made my day actually.
I had no idea he was a marketing addition, but it makes sense now.
StreamoftheSky - Dude, you've clearly never met artists. Any illustrator or artist I know would have given him a harder time than the WotC artists have. Marketing imposition alone is more than enough to explain the hate, though I think him being extremely dull inspired yet more hate.
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The content guys are the ones that broke 'The Understanding' by intentionally tweaking the composition of the iconics to fit their pre-conceived notions of egalitarianism and what should appeal to gamers. They peed in Marketing's cornflakes, not the other way around.
Last I checked, there were several white males among the iconics before you factored in Regdar.
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Liking Regdar doesn't make you racist/sexist by any means. Marketing people saying "we need a white male to be front and center" is racist and sexist. Very big difference there. Don't go looking for insults that aren't there. If you re-read it, Monte Cook never claims that fans who like the character are racist and sexist.
Individual fans making a choice to like a character is a far cry from marketing people presuming that ALL fans will ONLY like the character as long as he's a white male. Very different things. So feel free to gladly like Regdar without believing the Monte is condemning you.
I was just kidding.
__________________ Mike McConnell, Freelance RPG Writer Currently Working On: Starblazer Adventures: The Planet Killers
Co-Owner of Imagineering Inc, formerly known as BC-Products, and the owner of the original Tact-Tiles.
Follow me and Imagineering Inc on Twitter: Mechalus
I loathed Regdar. He was dull as ditchwater and he had one of those ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache that only a strange subsection of Americans between the ages of 21 and 30 seem to think is even remotely cool. Yeah, I hate characters for bad facial hair? Is that a problem? In a game with so much quality facial hair, he stood out as a beacon of bad beardage. He also reminds me of that unspeakably dull wanker who is the lead "character" in Gears of War and I use the term "character" advisedly because he has No Percievable Personality (apart from "Badass" in the most retarded way possible) and was evidently designed for maximum quasi-frat-boy appeal.
I have a "ludicrous chin-beards w/o mustache" and I thought Marcus Fenix was cool. :/
I was never a frat boy so...
__________________ Mike McConnell, Freelance RPG Writer Currently Working On: Starblazer Adventures: The Planet Killers
Co-Owner of Imagineering Inc, formerly known as BC-Products, and the owner of the original Tact-Tiles.
Follow me and Imagineering Inc on Twitter: Mechalus
StreamoftheSky - Dude, you've clearly never met artists. Any illustrator or artist I know would have given him a harder time than the WotC artists have. Marketing imposition alone is more than enough to explain the hate, though I think him being extremely dull inspired yet more hate.
My fiancee actually graduated college with an art degree... Granted, she hasn't done any work in the field, but I just found that funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propagandroid
So, since Regdar always appears dead, we can infer that all D&D designers want white men dead, right?
Nice hyperbole. All I'm saying is, the way the illustrators apparantly have reacted to the slight, and the way people seemed to be joyously reacting to seeing the white guy getting killed is just as bad as what the marketing people did, if not worse. And for the record, I never really cared for Regdar. Or Tordek. The whole free pass dwarves got in overpoweredness and bland stereotypes as people continued to levy complaints against elves for those very things (mostly from injustices in past editions) annoys me (as a gamer) more than the racist/sexist inclusion of Regdar.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
So, I reject your stereotypes and substitute my own!
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