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Oh, I'm allowed to, absolutely. But the simple, brutal truth is, I don't want to.
"from a purely personal perspective, I have to say I'm disappointed."
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
And second, there's been quite limited reader support for it. The 3E fans has been vocal in their support for KQ, and have subscribed in good numbers. The 4E fans .... haven't really spoken up or subscribed.
Vocal =/= Majority.
Also, how are they supposed to subscribe if KQ isn't going to 4e? Isn't that kind've counter productive, subscribing to a magazine not supporting the game you're playing? Or if you're talking about WotRK, I was under the impression you had enough patrons to do the project.
"from a purely personal perspective, I have to say I'm disappointed."
Well, I appreciate that.
But I just find the game so much more enjoyable--to design for and to play--that I just can't see me going back unless (as I said) I find that I have to.
(Or if I'm offered a gig that's just so cool that system becomes irrelevant to my decision. That could happen, I suppose.)
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
Also, how are they supposed to subscribe if KQ isn't going to 4e? Isn't that kind've counter productive, subscribing to a magazine not supporting the game you're playing?
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. I know that, even though I really liked the issues to date, this is exactly why I let my subscription lapse. Sure, I could always convert, but my gaming budget--while not small --isn't so vast that I can afford, on a regular basis, to buy stuff for a system I'm not using.
I'd love to keep supporting Wolf's Open Design (and I contributed to River King). But I just can't financially justify continuing to subscribe to a non-4E D&D magazine.
__________________ Ari Marmell
aka
Mouseferatu
--Rodent of the Dark
Yes, I'm working up a 4E patron project right now, called Wrath of the River King. That's the only 4E project on my calendar.
I'd be happy to offer 4E content for KQ (any new system needs a lot of support articles), and I'm enjoying designing for the new system.
But there's two reasons to hold off. First, the GSL makes it pretty much impossible to support 4E in Kobold Quarterly under that license. I find this disappointing, but it did make the decision very easy.
And second, there's been quite limited reader support for it. The 3E fans has been vocal in their support for KQ, and have subscribed in good numbers. The 4E fans .... haven't really spoken up or subscribed.
So, I'll be offering limited material useful for 4E in issue #6, without the GSL. I had hoped that the new edition would not split the gaming public, but it seems clear that a large minority of players are sticking with 3E. And many of them are KQ subscribers.
Maybe offer a seperate line that could support 4E? Even if it came out at a less frequent pace thatn KQ I know I would support it.
I was actually dissapointed that I couldn't contribute to the 5 grand kitty back in the early GSL days.
At the least the experience with the Arabian Nights project convinced me that the best way to get the themed adventures I really love is through ransom projects.
A magazine that went through the 'play styles' section of the DMG doing Wuxia one issue with an appropriate rules 'stylesheet', a few short adventures, and awesome art and then did the same thing with Swashbuckling the next could practically demand a tithe of me I would be so enthused.
Also, how are they supposed to subscribe if KQ isn't going to 4e? Isn't that kind've counter productive, subscribing to a magazine not supporting the game you're playing? Or if you're talking about WotRK, I was under the impression you had enough patrons to do the project.
If they don't speak up, how is Wolf supposed to know whether there's any money in moving to 4e? It's a shot in the dark. Some old saying about birds in hand with respect to those in the bush applies here.
Aside from which, given the terms of the GSL, I have certain doubts that a GSL KQ would have as much leeway to be as good as it is.
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
Well, you are the one who said (if I'm remembering correct) that the thought of running combat made in v.3.5 after playing 4e made you want to throw up, so your answer didn't surprise me at all.
Maybe it'd be better to search the posts and find the link before making comments like that.
Mouseferatu from my reading of threads he has been involved in is one of the most respectful posters on this site, maybe you should take a leaf from his book manners cost nothing.
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
I really should have jumped onto Baurs "ransom" 4E project... I could have afforded a few €uros.
But to be honest, I have no experience (that I am aware of) with his products, so I reserved some doubts, and add this with procrastination and slow acting on my part...
Quote:
If they don't speak up, how is Wolf supposed to know whether there's any money in moving to 4e? It's a shot in the dark. Some old saying about birds in hand with respect to those in the bush applies here.
But how will he ever be able to figure out if 4e can make him some money if he doesn't try? Or if nobody tells him he really should? It becomes less a short in the dark if fans tell him "I am lapsing my subscription because the contentl is not useful for me without 4E support" or "I won't subscribe without 4E support". Of course, this might be just "internet forum poll" stuff and ultimately useless in the long run. But how did he know that Kobold Quarterly with 3E support could work, either?
Quote:
Aside from which, given the terms of the GSL, I have certain doubts that a GSL KQ would have as much leeway to be as good as it is.
I think a second magazine would probably work better. But it might not be required to do so - Individual articles would be under the GSL, not the entire magazine. I am not sure if the GSL allows this, though.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
I would definitely buy a 4e magazine by WB. But just as Mustrum_Ridcully, I was slow deciding on the support of his 4e adventure, due to being unfamiliar with the system of patronage that he uses.
__________________
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Also, how are they supposed to subscribe if KQ isn't going to 4e? Isn't that kind've counter productive, subscribing to a magazine not supporting the game you're playing? Or if you're talking about WotRK, I was under the impression you had enough patrons to do the project.
It seems to me that those who are sticking with 3rd are more likely to be supportive of 3rd party work than those going with 4th. That at least has been my general observation.
I would definitely buy a 4e magazine by WB. But just as Mustrum_Ridcully, I was slow deciding on the support of his 4e adventure, due to being unfamiliar with the system of patronage that he uses.
Same here. Really, the patronage thing just perplexs me still. And I'm generally not a perplexable guy.
__________________ “When one awakes, and rolls from his pallet, and strides across the cold rushes to put flame to lantern. When the world is asleep around him. When the whippoorwill sings and crickets speak. When one is alone, in silence, with nothing but a book. That, my son, is glory. That is all the glory a man ever needs, and more besides.” - Sage Poridel Poriden, Sins of Our Fathers
Are you running SoW and are interested in getting some ideas on the overarching plot?
Looking for better ways to tie the disparate modules together?
Come visit my thread on doing exactly that! Also, visit the wiki it inspired! Player's stay out!
It seems to me that those who are sticking with 3rd are more likely to be supportive of 3rd party work than those going with 4th. That at least has been my general observation.
Not sure about that, but I and others staying 3.5 likely have a lot more money to spend on quality 3.5 stuff now than we did before.
Heck, when everyone was 3.5 I was spending the following each month (on average) from the companies I'd buy everything from:
Now since 4E all I have been buying consistently is Paizo stuff ($40-50/month) and selected minis (that work in 3.5) and dungeon tiles from WotC (average of $15-20/month).
Maybe it'd be better to search the posts and find the link before making comments like that.
Mouseferatu from my reading of threads he has been involved in is one of the most respectful posters on this site, maybe you should take a leaf from his book manners cost nothing.
I'm in the process of finding the post in question, but I'm not having any luck with the search function. I will post the quote here when I find it.
In any case, I'm surprised he doesn't remember it. I remember it quite clearly and in fact responded to it. He said that after running combat in 4e, the thought of running combat in v3.5 made him physically ill.
I'm sorry if you think what I posted was disrespectful. It certainly wasn't meant to be.
__________________ Wolfspider
Founder of BADD - Bothered About Disposable Dragons
"Provide evidence of this claim, or retract it because it's a dishonest statement." -- Mourn, laying down the law
"The sins of the previous edition don't excuse the sins of the next." -- Kamikaze Midget, giving words to my thoughts
If they don't speak up, how is Wolf supposed to know whether there's any money in moving to 4e? It's a shot in the dark. Some old saying about birds in hand with respect to those in the bush applies here.
Aside from which, given the terms of the GSL, I have certain doubts that a GSL KQ would have as much leeway to be as good as it is.
Donating to Wrath of the River King is putting money where my mouth is. Buying a 3e magazine is putting money where someone else's mouth is. That said, Wolfgang's 3e project got funded faster than River King did, so I can hardly fault him for sticking with 3rd edition (and you likewise have a point about the GSL restrictions providing less leeway for designers).
It's worth noting, though, that Kobold quarterly is only a year old, and that folks looking forward to 4e mostly stopped buying 3e stuff last year when it was announced.
Apropos of nothing, my favorite Wolfgang Baur product is neither 3e nor 4e. Dark•Matter is where it's at.
__________________ In California? Enjoy gaming? Then you don't want to miss PolyCon.
It seems to me that those who are sticking with 3rd are more likely to be supportive of 3rd party work than those going with 4th. That at least has been my general observation.
possibly because 1st party 3rd edition stuff isn't being produced anymore?
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
possibly because 1st party 3rd edition stuff isn't being produced anymore?
That is half of it.
On the 4e side, I continue to see many claiming they really don't care about or follow 3rd party companies. Its not a universal sentiment by any means but its still there.
I put money into Wrath of the River King, and I have been a patron of all the projects except for the first one. I am also in Tales of Zobek and Blood of the Gorgon, but I will likely be trying to convert to 4e.
I might have to bow out of my KQ subscription though, unless he does some 4e support. It's a shame because it's a good mag, but I just want to put my RPG dollars to 4e stuff or to REALLY good 3.x stuff that I can easily convert. Adventures are best. Class/Monster crunch for 3.x, not so good.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.)
Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran
Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
I liked KQ too, and am a little disappointed it isn't doing 4e support (at least, right now).
I think part of the problem is that the support "magazines" for 4e, Dragon and Dungeon, are at this point free. It would be difficult to convince people to pay for 3rd Party support while official materials, written by the game's designers, are available at no cost.
When DDI switches to subscription mode, I think it will become much more attractive for a 4e periodical to start up, though likely not by one of the Big 3PP's due to the GSL.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some fan-based publication starting though (which, I guess at least some of the Big 3PP started out as too). I think a lot of gamers would love to be designers and developers too, and they need a place to get started. Dragon and Dungeon is one place to make submissions, but other outlets will spring up I imagine, as there are only so many pages in an issue to fight over. They already pore a lot of time and energy into their efforts with no chance of payment - just look at the Fan Creations and House Rules forums, or my own efforts with the Pre-release Rules Compilation. For these kinds of amateur writers and designers, the GSL isn't likely as imposing as it is for companies that have existing large overhead and many employees to worry about. Quality of course is variable, and you'd need a dedicated group of volunteer editors and desktop publishers to take the submitted PEACH'd material and assemble it into good looking PDF's. Making money for these people is less important than getting 'published' and noticed by potential employers. How many WotCers got their start in Dragon and Dungeon, after all, and I doubt they were making their whole living off RPGs at the time?
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