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I don't know if it was, I meant the fact they specifically state it's NOT indicates that at one point it might have been.
I would be shocked if I one day learned that WotC didn't at one time explore the idea of collectible power cards. That's what I expect them to do, explore all possible avenues of revenue, and go ahead with those they deem financially viable, while still legal.
But I don't think the wording of the product description is any kind of evidence of that, if the text is in the product description, then it's just pre-emptive information, because we all know what would happen if they didn't put it in.
/M
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"All editions of D&D are awesome." - Fifth Element (EN World Forums, 2008)
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Hey, folks. I just made a few notes from a half-page of info about each product. I mentioned non-randomized because I thought it was worth mentioning since WotC and randomized are almost synonymous for some people on these boards. I thought it would clarify the point, not start up some rumors that WotC must have planned to randomize.
I thought it was important that the card sets confirm the number of classes in PHB2, and the lack of new classes in Martial Powers. Also, the number of powers per class presented in Martial Powers will be similar will be similar to the number in the PHB.
Yup and its very nice to get a sneak peek like this, Thankies again Thalmin, I really enjoyed the thread where you got the Core rulebooks early as well, keep up the good work.
So thats 2 primal classes gone, 2 more and 2 divine and 2 arcane would be my guess for the line up with the arcane being the sorceror(as a wild mage variant) and hopefully the bard.
I'm unreasonably excited by what the new classes will be, but am also slightly apprehensive in case power creep appears or to a lesser extent if the classes aren't interesting/too samey.
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"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
Great, if you only ever plan on playing one class. The price of diversity is only 80 fraking bucks per PHB, and $40 per power book.
My frickin eyes are bleeding.
"if you are too lazy to make your own" I think you missed that line because getting an index card and writing on it is hardly rocket science or even printing out some of the wonderful ones produced by members of this site.
but for £5 a pop probably £5.99 I might splash out on a set, its only the price of 2 pints after all.
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
"if you are too lazy to make your own" I think you missed that line because getting an index card and writing on it is hardly rocket science or even printing out some of the wonderful ones produced by members of this site.
but for £5 a pop probably £5.99 I might splash out on a set, its only the price of 2 pints after all.
No, I didn't 'miss that line'. In fact we do make our own, color printed and laminated. They are quite nice, actually. That doesn't mean I can't be disgusted about the product.
The root of intolerance against RPG players by some Christians is ignorance. The root of intolerance against Christians by some RPG players is ignorance. It's part of being human, but it's still good practice to not fall into the same behaviour one condemns.
_________________ Looking for a Cthulhu game in Houston.
Last edited by Darkwolf71; 28th July 2008 at 04:51 PM..
Frankly, it's such an obviously dumb idea that I'd by shocked if anyone in WotC even considered it.
Well, I guess it comes down to design philosophies. I try to document each and every idea when it comes to developing a product, even the stupid ones. And then we can look at the stupid ones, and make sure everyone understands why they are stupid (if they indeed are stupid), and make sure that all involved makes an informed decision about developing the idea further or dropping it.
And sometimes, really dumb ideas are the best ideas. Just dismissing ideas out of hand seems a waste to me, and I hope WotC isn't making a habit of it (cue jokes about 4e being proof that they aren't making a habit of dismissing dumb ideas )
/M
__________________ iAltdorf. An interactive map of the capital of the Empire in WFRP! Download today! Can be used in any fantasy campaign!
http://altdorfer.blogspot.com - Check out the Altdorf Correspondent! A WFRP blog about life in the Imperial capital.
"All editions of D&D are awesome." - Fifth Element (EN World Forums, 2008)
”The tendency to confuse personal taste with objective quality is nearly universal.” - Robin D. Laws – Robin’s Laws of Good Gamemastering (Steve Jackson Games, 2002)
So we still don't know when the Eberron Player's Guide comes out, which actually has the full Artificer class write-up in it.
I just have a slight issue with Arcane Power than, since it comes out before the EbPG so it likely won't cover all arcane classes. Yes I know it's a problem with there going to be 6 arcane classes with Wizard and Warlock from PHB1, Swordmage from FRPG, Bard and Sorcerer from PHB2 and Artificer from EbPG.
Yes, I know the Wizard really does need a lot of help with new material, since it feels a little lacking in some areas with the PHB. And with the much wanted new warlock pacts, there's enough powers to make it as big as the PHB warlock entry.
Really it would look better if they tried Divine Power first, since by then we'd have the Cleric and Paladin from PHB1, and the highly speculated Inquisitor and Theurge from PHB2 and have the divine power source "complete" with that book.
With Martial Power it's good that there's no new classes, since I can't see how they'd try to come up with more martial classes. That power source is pretty complete, though I'd like to see some newer options like a ranged attack path for fighters (which could help with my homebrew ideas for a rifleman as a fighter).
I still don't like that I'll have to likely wait till 2010 till we have the monk or psionic classes (with the psion likely existing as a playtest class in late 2009). Though maybe by then they'll have a book on Aberrant creatures much like Lords of Madness, to go with psionics.
Then again for late 2009, I wonder if they'll bother with a Primal Power book, since it seems that with PHB 2, the 4 proposed primal classes will likely cover all of the Primal power source (barbarian, druid, shaman, W?/witch?/wu jen?) that there needs to be.
No, I didn't 'miss that line'. In fact we do make our own, color printed and laminated. Thet are quite nice, actually. That doesn't mean I can't be disgusted about the product.
So, how much did they cost you? What kind of artwork did you use?
It seems to me the price is pretty fair. There are approximately 80 powers per class, and if each class powers are included twice, that means 160 cards per deck.
Of course, it's possible that the cards are actually not that useful. For example, if there isn't a spot where I can write attack and damage values in the card, they become far less useful to me - a player of mine did cards like that, and while they are beautiful and well done, their usability is just lower then the print-outs I made myself.
Or that the art-work sucks (or doesn't exist)
Oh, and what's with racial and feat powers (Channel Divinity feats)? Will they be included?
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Am I understanding this correctly ... to have cards for all of the classes (in just the PHB1) you would need to buy eight different decks?
Exactly how many cards do you want for ten bucks? A typical PHB class has, what, 80? 90 powers? That's half again as many cards as in a typical CCG deck. For a price that's maybe 25% higher than a typical CCG starter deck.
If you're really going to play every class in the PHB, good on ya! But it seems kind of unreasonable to think that fully kitting out for such a broad undertaking wouldn't carry a price tag. $10 a deck is hardly a rip-off, assuming a halfway decent product, so $80 for 8 decks (600 to 700 cards!) doesn't really seem to merit your "disgust."
Exactly how many cards do you want for ten bucks? A typical PHB class has, what, 80? 90 powers? That's half again as many cards as in a typical CCG deck. For a price that's maybe 25% higher than a typical CCG starter deck.
If you're really going to play every class in the PHB, good on ya! But it seems kind of unreasonable to think that fully kitting out for such a broad undertaking wouldn't carry a price tag. $10 a deck is hardly a rip-off, assuming a halfway decent product, so $80 for 8 decks (600 to 700 cards!) doesn't really seem to merit your "disgust."
And it's not like every player has to have all decks. Unless you play in 8 campaigns at the same time, and in each campaign, you all play just one class
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
It seems to me the price is pretty fair. There are approximately 80 powers per class, and if each class powers are included twice, that means 160 cards per deck
Thalmin thread-forked and noticed that the "2 per counter display" has nothing to do with the contents of the deck. So strike that. (I assume the fork happened accidentally)
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
Of course randomization would be good because it would prevent stores from worrying about which classes are more popular than others and save them from being left with unpopular stock, plus they would only have one SKU to worry about and display space would be less [/sarcasm]
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"if you are too lazy to make your own" I think you missed that line because getting an index card and writing on it is hardly rocket science or even printing out some of the wonderful ones produced by members of this site.
but for £5 a pop probably £5.99 I might splash out on a set, its only the price of 2 pints after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Jester
Yeah... sucks that you can't play the game without them, or make your own, or find free ones if you want to.
Wow, so you can't have an opinion on whether something is worth the price or not... because you can "do it yourself"? This is the same justification I saw people use to defend WotC producing those terrible character sheets, and it's a cop out. I can make my own classes and powers... so does that mean if I am disappointed in how WotC designs the Martial Power book... I don't have a right to be since I could "do it myself"?
Personally I won't be buying them because there are already great cards on the internet for free... however if they meet the requirements below I may purchase them...if not, I do not think they are a particularly good deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesRyan
Exactly how many cards do you want for ten bucks? A typical PHB class has, what, 80? 90 powers? That's half again as many cards as in a typical CCG deck. For a price that's maybe 25% higher than a typical CCG starter deck.
If you're really going to play every class in the PHB, good on ya! But it seems kind of unreasonable to think that fully kitting out for such a broad undertaking wouldn't carry a price tag. $10 a deck is hardly a rip-off, assuming a halfway decent product, so $80 for 8 decks (600 to 700 cards!) doesn't really seem to merit your "disgust."
I will say you could be right... if we get some good artwork on these cards (and no I'm not talking about reprinted artwork)... and the official errata for all the powers I would say they may be worth it. But if it's just the exact layout of the powers from the books printed onto cardstock, with no errata... yeah I'd be pretty disappointed at $9.99 per class. It's not like there is rule design & development, playtesting or anything else involved with the cards...like there was with Inn-Fighting and Dragon Ante.
SIDE NOTE: I think this it's also a case of WotC really waiting too long to get these out there, though this again causes me to consider these as firmly targeted at new players, just like the character sheets.
__________________ Nobody built like me, I designed myself ...as an
Thalmin, when you have a chance, would you mind checking the novels in the catalog against this list?
January
Canticle (reissue) [Forgotten Realms, Cleric Quintet 1]
The Amber Enchantress (reissue) [Dark Sun, Prism Pentad 3]
The Elven Nations Trilogy Omnibus [Dragonlance]
The Fanged Crown [Forgotten Realms, The Wilds 1]
The Legend of Drizzt Collector's Edition, Book III [Forgotten Realms]
Brass Dragon Codex [Mirrorstone]
A Practical Guide to Faeries [Mirrorstone]
February
Agents of Artifice [Planeswalker -- is this Planescape?]
The Last Sacrifice: Sentinel Marshals [Eberron]
The Silent Blade (reissue) [Forgotten Realms, Legend of Drizzt 11]
The Sleep of Reason [Ravenloft?]
Unholy [Forgotten Realms, Haunted Lands 3]
March
Corsair [Forgotten Realms, Blades of Moonsea 2]
In Sylvan Shadows (reissue) [Forgotten Realms, Cleric Quintet 2]
Obsidian Oracle (reissue) [Dark Sun, Prism Pentad 4]
Renegade Wizards [Dragonlance, Tracy Hickman presents the Anvil of Time 3]
April
Downshadow [Forgotten Realms, Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep 3]
Madness in Harmony: A Novel of the Mists [Ravenloft?]
The Spine of the World (reissue) [Forgotten Realms, Legend of Drizzt 12]
The Threat from the Sea Omnibus [Forgotten Realms]
June
Dragon War (hardcover) [Eberron, The Draconic Prophecies 3]
Green Dragon Codex [Mirrorstone]
July
The Crystal Mountain [Forgotten Realms, Empyrean Odyssey 3]
August
Goblin Nation [Dragonlance, Stonetellers 3]
The Fate of Thorbardin [Dragonlance, Dwarf Home 3]
September
Silver Dragon Codex [Mirrorstone]
October
The Ghost King [Forgotten Realms, Transitions 3]
It's worth mentioning, what of "powers" that aren't "powers" in the PH? For example, I've made cards for Second Wind, I've made cards for class features, (Sneak Attack, Arcane Implement Mastery, Warlock's Curse, Combat Challenge, and more). And of course, what about Magic Items?
When can we expect to see these things in card form?
I'm intrigued by these cards. If they cover all my bases, I'll likely buy them. However, until I'm certain they do cover all my bases, I'll be sticking with my own system, for consistency's sake.
Exactly how many cards do you want for ten bucks? A typical PHB class has, what, 80? 90 powers? That's half again as many cards as in a typical CCG deck. For a price that's maybe 25% higher than a typical CCG starter deck.
If you're really going to play every class in the PHB, good on ya! But it seems kind of unreasonable to think that fully kitting out for such a broad undertaking wouldn't carry a price tag. $10 a deck is hardly a rip-off, assuming a halfway decent product, so $80 for 8 decks (600 to 700 cards!) doesn't really seem to merit your "disgust."
To lessen confusion, It was I who claimed 'disgust', not tomBitonti.
Now technically, sure. I'll cede the point that, 10 bucks for 80 cards is not a horrible price. My disgust comes from the realization that the game was designed with this in mind. They have made D&D into a game that practically requires the use of minis and cards. Which convieniantly, oh look... they just happen to sell.
It's no longer D&D, it's fraking Magic: The Role Playing Game.
The root of intolerance against RPG players by some Christians is ignorance. The root of intolerance against Christians by some RPG players is ignorance. It's part of being human, but it's still good practice to not fall into the same behaviour one condemns.
_________________ Looking for a Cthulhu game in Houston.
A game was designed with the ability to produce supplements in mind? HOLY SHADES OF EVERY EDITION OF THE GAME, BATMAN!
Is that the best you can do? Really, if you have a different opinion fine, please share it. If you're going to reply with flame bait, go do it at gleemax.
The root of intolerance against RPG players by some Christians is ignorance. The root of intolerance against Christians by some RPG players is ignorance. It's part of being human, but it's still good practice to not fall into the same behaviour one condemns.
_________________ Looking for a Cthulhu game in Houston.
A game was designed with the ability to produce supplements in mind? HOLY SHADES OF EVERY EDITION OF THE GAME, BATMAN!
Yeah, but there is a line between the game being centered around these things (minis, dungeon tiles, power cards) and a game that uses them as enhancing elements. IMHO, 4e falls into the category of being centered around these things.).
4e was touted as playing faster... but if you don't have your powers on some type of card it plays way slower than previous editions.
People claim it is just as mini-centric as 3e... but IMHO, it is definitely more mini-centric and requires some sort of grid to track spatial relations.
There are numerous marks and conditions which continually change on a round per round basis and thus require various types of marker for each. And I have no doubt WotC will sell official markers for these at some point.
In fact my opinion is that the game was designed to push people towards using the DDI... but still be just manageable enough that one can play it... with all these "optional" enhancements. I also think WotC is banking on alot of people sooner or later coming to the realization that, "Wow! It would be cheaper and less space if I just use the DDI". Too bad they haven't pulled it together yet.
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)
(I assume the fork happened accidentally)
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