4e / GSL WotC Spring 2009 Catalog

[Echohawk]

Originally Posted by Mouseferatu

I can answer this one. Nope, it's not Planescape; it's not, in fact, a D&D novel.

Thanks for clearing that up.

(And also "bother", I was hoping for a Planescape novel. I don't suppose you'd like to pitch a Planescape novel to WotC, Mouse? )

[Maggan]

The fact that there was lots and lots of different cards created by fans for 3e obviously played a part in WotC deeming this to be a good idea.

We've made our own Feat, Spell and whatnot cards for 3.5 forever and ever. We're making cards for 4e as well, and for WotC to come out with this is one of the most obvious ideas I've ever seen.

Unless I'm mistaken, there was players hoping for this even before 4th edition was released, so I think WotC is filling a very real and tangible need for some gamers out there.

EDIT: also, creating something that the players will buy, in addition to the PH, is probably a very good thing when it comes to the economy of the new edition. More things players can buy (instead of just the DM), equals more money for WotC, which equals a more healthy D&D, for good and for worse.

/M

[Mouseferatu]

Originally Posted by Echohawk

Thanks for clearing that up.

(And also "bother", I was hoping for a Planescape novel. I don't suppose you'd like to pitch a Planescape novel to WotC, Mouse? )

Heh. Given the recent refocus in their fiction department, I'm not sure it'd do much good.

(Yes, Planescape is technically a D&D property, but--especially with the new 4E cosmology--I doubt it's a core enough property to qualify.)

[Mercule]

Originally Posted by Mouseferatu

I cannot begin to state how fully I disagree with the people claiming that D&D plays like a CCG.

In my own group, only half of us are using home-made power cards. Some of us feel they speed things up, some of us don't. Me, I don't think it makes a huge difference, as long as you have your powers summarized on something--a sheet of paper works just fine. Frankly, I find it no more complex than keeping track of which spells I'd cast as a wizard or druid in 3E.

Hey, don't take my statements the wrong way.

I haven't played enough to actually have an opinion. I'm just saying that I can at least see where that argument comes from, since you've got a card-oriented mechanic where you discard most powers after use. It's what I got on my read-through, but I'm mostly trusting people like you who have played it, when you say it ain't. I don't understand the WoW arguments.

[Mouseferatu]

Originally Posted by Mercule

Hey, don't take my statements the wrong way.

Oh, I'm not. My comment wasn't directed specifically at you.

I'm just stunned it's even an issue for some people, when it really is no different than people using cards or checklists for spells in prior editions. (And in fact, TSR sold spell cards for 2E.)

[Eridanis]

Please keep the discussion polite and on-topic. In fact, I'd suggest forking a new thread to discuss the card decks, and keep this thread for general discussion of the catalog.

Thanks, again, thalmin!

[Darkwolf71]

Ok, let me clarify my statment. I for one have never played Magic, I do have lots of friends who do and I have watched many games/tournaments.

At the same time I am not 'playing' 4e, I am DMing it. So, again I am watching others play it.

Once we had cards it quickly became the norm to 'tap' or turn sideways a power card when the associated power had been used. After a Short Rest eligable powers were returned to play position. So, yes from an observational point of view, it plays very much like Magic with Minis. Hence my earlier comment about Magic: The Roleplaying Game.

So, it may or may not 'feel' like playing Magic, I honestly have no idea but it certainly 'looks' like playing Magic.



Edit:
Sorry, Erindanis. I was finishing my reply when you posted. If someone else wants to fork it, I'll repost there. As it is, I've had my say.

[mach1.9pants]

Originally Posted by Mouseferatu

I cannot begin to state how fully I disagree with the people claiming that D&D plays like a CCG.

In my own group, only half of us are using home-made power cards. Some of us feel they speed things up, some of us don't. Me, I don't think it makes a huge difference, as long as you have your powers summarized on something--a sheet of paper works just fine. Frankly, I find it no more complex than keeping track of which spells I'd cast as a wizard or druid in 3E.

THIS. My players (and my DM NPC) all have cards but one of the players just normally refers to his char sheet. The cards don't come out. It is just like the DM screen or any other extra. You don't in anyway need it but, for some, it is nice to have. And if there is a market then WotC should exploit it! If you don't like it don't buy it.
I like the cards, but think there maybe too many when we get to higher levels to easily fit around the table so they might eventually fall by the wayside. But I won't be buying them when the fan made ones are excellent in themselves, they are fine printed on cheap cardstock in B&W
Anders00 set are awesome! http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=568

Edit: Sorry, Thalmin, I was searching for Ander00 MSE post

[SteveC]

As someone who has been a bit of a critic of WotC recently, could I just step in and ask our community to give them a bit of a break here? When the new power structure (at-wills, encounters, dailys) came out, the idea of cards was a very popular one, and many people asked WotC to make the product. You may argue that 4E was designed with this in mind, but the idea of these cards is something that many EnWorlders have been talking about for months.

Yes, there are free versions of these cards, and if you want to put in the time, energy and money to print them out, more power to you! Our current group does not use cards, but there are several members who would benefit greatly from having them. And others who have said "great idea, where can I get 'em?"

But to criticize WotC for giving people so much of what they were asking for? It smacks of a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" mentality.

It's just my $.02, as someone who might likely buy one or two packs of these things period, and certainly won't get the whole set, but nonetheless thinks it's a great idea.

--Steve

[Fifth Element]

Originally Posted by Darkwolf71

So, it may or may not 'feel' like playing Magic, I honestly have no idea but it certainly 'looks' like playing Magic.

This is quite a leap. Does Magic often have long stretches of people doing nothing but talking? Does it involve a lot of die-rolling? Does it often involve moving minis around a battlemat?

This is like that Diablo 2 thread. You see one small, specific aspect of the game that reminds you of some other game, and use that to assert that 4E is no longer D&D but that other game.

Edit: Yes, this should probably be forked. Or stopped entirely.

[doctorhook]

No one commented on the question I asked earlier. Since it appears there will be cards for every class power...

- Will there be power cards for basic attacks and utilities, such as Melee Basic, Ranged Basic, Second Wind, First Aid, Intimidate?
- Will there be cards for class features that operate like powers but are not presented as such? For example, Arcane Implement Mastery, Sneak Attack, or Combat Challenge? (Some might debate the usefulness/"powerness" of these abilities, but I have cards of them for the same reason I have cards of attack powers: to keep me out of the PH when I'm at the table.)
- Will there be cards for magic items and their powers?

Since, at this moment, the answer to all of the above is probably, "I don't know," does anyone else think there should be?

I'm interested in cards that cover the above. How about everyone else?

[HDTVDinner]

Originally Posted by Echohawk

February
Dungeon Delve

Any clues as to what this is?

[Henry]

Write me down as "confused by the mandatory cards" thing, too. If people haven't required cards to keep track of their wizard/cleric/druid spells over the past eight years, they sure aren't going to need cards for 4e - in fact, less so because high-level PCs carry fewer available resources at any one time than in previous editions. The minis complaint, I can see, because people kind of wrote those out of existance with their own house rules in editions prior to 3e, and you have to "guesstimate" or modify a whole lot of powers in 4e that deal with squares of movement.

[Echohawk]

Originally Posted by HDTVDinner

Any clues as to what this is?

Nope, there isn't even a description on the WotC product page yet.

[Merlin the Tuna]

To echo doctorhook's questions, it'd also be nice to know whether a class deck includes powers from the class's paragon paths.

[thalmin]

Originally Posted by HDTVDinner

Any clues as to what this is?

From the catalog:

Dungeon Delve
A D&D Adventure by David Noonan and Bill Slavicsek
Dungeon Delve provides the DM withan array of small, easy-to-run dungeons each especially designed for a night of gaming.
This book is designed for groups looking for an exciting night of monster-slay9ngwithout the prep time. It contains dozens of self-contained easy-to-run mini-dungeons, or "delves," each one crafted for a few hours of game-play.
The book includes delves for 1st- to 3oth-level characters, and features dozens of iconic monsters for the heroes to battle. Dungeon Masters can run these delves as one-shot adventures or weave them into their campaign.
Key Selling Points

• This book has encounters for all levels of characters, from 1st to 30th.
• DMs can drop each of the mini-dungeons into their games at a moment's notice.
• Based on the extremely popular "Delve" events held at gaming conventions.
• Every delve is designed to use existing D&D Dungeon Tiles and D&D Miniatures.

Hardcover, 192 pages, $29.95, February 17, 2009

[HDTVDinner]

Originally Posted by thalmin

From the catalog:

Dungeon Delve
A D&D Adventure by David Noonan and Bill Slavicsek
Dungeon Delve provides the DM withan array of small, easy-to-run dungeons each especially designed for a night of gaming.
This book is designed for groups looking for an exciting night of monster-slay9ngwithout the prep time. It contains dozens of self-contained easy-to-run mini-dungeons, or "delves," each one crafted for a few hours of game-play.
The book includes delves for 1st- to 3oth-level characters, and features dozens of iconic monsters for the heroes to battle. Dungeon Masters can run these delves as one-shot adventures or weave them into their campaign.
Key Selling Points

• This book has encounters for all levels of characters, from 1st to 30th.
• DMs can drop each of the mini-dungeons into their games at a moment's notice.
• Based on the extremely popular "Delve" events held at gaming conventions.
• Every delve is designed to use existing D&D Dungeon Tiles and D&D Miniatures.

Hardcover, 192 pages, $29.95, February 17, 2009

Wow! Thats pretty sweet! Thanks for the info!

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Originally Posted by Henry

Write me down as "confused by the mandatory cards" thing, too. If people haven't required cards to keep track of their wizard/cleric/druid spells over the past eight years, they sure aren't going to need cards for 4e - in fact, less so because high-level PCs carry fewer available resources at any one time than in previous editions. The minis complaint, I can see, because people kind of wrote those out of existance with their own house rules in editions prior to 3e, and you have to "guesstimate" or modify a whole lot of powers in 4e that deal with squares of movement.

My real question is - why didn't we think of spell cards as a prop earlier? (I mean it is not a new idea, but it wasn't widely used or suggested). What is different between earlier editions and 4E that makes people suddenly interested in it.

My guess would be:
- This is the first time every class benefits from cards.
- Compared to a 3E Wizard spellbook, the number of powers/spells that you need per game session is manageable. While you might have ~80 powers per class, you only need 8-24 per character.
- The way the powers are written down is a lot more manageable. Some earlier edition spells had widely different amounts of text describing the text, and a lot of information was 'hidden' in that text. Fitting this on a card can sometimes be difficult, and parsing the information out of the card is not really easier then from the book.

[Dinkeldog]

I don't know, Mustrum. I was using them in 2nd Edition.

[Mercule]

Originally Posted by thalmin

From the catalog:

Dungeon Delve
Stuff

Sold!