General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Dungeon Delve
A D&D Adventure by David Noonan and Bill Slavicsek
Dungeon Delve provides the DM withan array of small, easy-to-run dungeons each especially designed for a night of gaming.
This book is designed for groups looking for an exciting night of monster-slay9ngwithout the prep time. It contains dozens of self-contained easy-to-run mini-dungeons, or "delves," each one crafted for a few hours of game-play.
The book includes delves for 1st- to 3oth-level characters, and features dozens of iconic monsters for the heroes to battle. Dungeon Masters can run these delves as one-shot adventures or weave them into their campaign.
Key Selling Points
* This book has encounters for all levels of characters, from 1st to 30th.
* DMs can drop each of the mini-dungeons into their games at a moment's notice.
* Based on the extremely popular "Delve" events held at gaming conventions.
* Every delve is designed to use existing D&D Dungeon Tiles and D&D Miniatures.
Hardcover, 192 pages, $29.95
February 17, 2009
That sounds really, really freaking cool. I wonder how many dungeons will be in it?
Using WotC's own estimates from the DMG (1 hour per encounter + 1 hour of BS), and assume a 4-5 hour game, each dungeon probably has 3-4 encounters. If each encounter takes up a 2-page spread, and we factor in 2 pages for background, hooks, and the like, we're looking at 8-10 pages per dungeon.
So my conservative estimate is maybe 20 dungeons... Even if it's fewer (say 15?), that's still $2 for a session's worth of material, which seems like a pretty good deal to me.
On the positive side, it sounds great for a one-shot, combat-oriented evening of fun. Perfect. Actually, it's exactly how I might like to play a miniatures skirmish game, which I enjoy a lot.
On the negative, it's not my preferred approach for playing D&D. A one-evening dungeon isn't likely to offer much in the way of exploration and discovery (and, for me, that's just as important as combat -- I think there's a good reason B1 was titled "In Search of the Unknown"); it's more likely to be a linear affair with set-piece encounters. Depending on how the mini-dungeons are set up, they might be useful as sub-levels or additions to a regular campaign or campaign dungeon, though.
__________________ "You want to play "Semantics and Lawyers"? Go ahead. We'll be busy kickin' ass and chewing Stygian Black Lotus- the best!" - Predavolk
Sounds a lot like the 3E Book of Challenges, which I enjoyed reading (and maybe used 2-3 scenarios from), but I think was a commercial failure.
__________________ "The Soul of D&D?It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
My second thought was that it sounds like it has no substance, and if it were published by a 3PP, people would call it "crap."
My third thought was, "Remember these?"
Given your stance on 4e, I am entirely unsurprised to see you continue that stance onto future products.
I'm hoping for something akin to Mythic Places for Ars Magica, with different story hooks and legends/history for each place that can be used/adapted or inspiring.
Having pre-set one-shots that can be easily dropped in when players go off the beaten track is going to be useful to many GMs.
Sounds a lot like the 3E Book of Challenges, which I enjoyed reading (and maybe used 2-3 scenarios from), but I think was a commercial failure.
On the other hand, the Book of Challenges was kinda bland.
In 4E, good environmental design can really makes a climatic encounter go pop. If that book is full of good encounter areas, and approaches the game in a very "toolbox"-like approach, mixed with DM tips, and set pieces, it could fare much better. I really hope so.
I'm hoping for something akin to Mythic Places for Ars Magica, with different story hooks and legends/history for each place that can be used/adapted or inspiring.
To me it reads as if it was the exact opposite of Ars Magica's Mythic Places:
Ready-to-play mini dungeons with hardly any background info for a couple of 'beer&pretzel' style evenings. Imho, if you look at the DMG's sample dungeon, you should get a pretty good idea, what you'll get.
On the other hand, the Book of Challenges was kinda bland.
In 4E, good environmental design can really makes a climatic encounter go pop. If that book is full of good encounter areas, and approaches the game in a very "toolbox"-like approach, mixed with DM tips, and set pieces, it could fare much better. I really hope so.
But isn't this exactly what Book of Challenges did?
* good encounter areas: check (one could argue whether the areas were good, but they were seldom generic)
* DM tips: check
* set pieces: check
I actually like Book of Challenges. It was particularly helpful early in the 3e life-cycle to show people what could be done with the (then) new system.
Something like that for 4e, but (of course we hope) better, sounds like a good product to me.
__________________ Still excited about 4th edition!
'If there steady paycheck in it, Krusk rage against anything you say.' - this post
My second thought was that it sounds like it has no substance, and if it were published by a 3PP, people would call it "crap."
My third thought was, "Remember these?"
Agreed on that second bit.
Also, didnt Mike Mearls write one or two of those?
__________________ I'm thinking you're totally out to lunch on this one. Find another form of foreplay that doesn't involve 3 hours of explanation and a pocket calculator.
As a DM, they were a great way to throw in a mini-adventure, when I didn't have time or the players deicided to do something odd and thus I hadn't written stuff up for
I'm hoping for something akin to Mythic Places for Ars Magica, with different story hooks and legends/history for each place that can be used/adapted or inspiring.
Having pre-set one-shots that can be easily dropped in when players go off the beaten track is going to be useful to many GMs.
Errr... the Delve is a format used in tournaments, where PCs are dropped in a dungeon and the last player alive wins (or the one with most kills, I forget). Delves offer no story, hooks, or history; they are meant to be tactical meat-grinders - nothing more. I very much doubt this product will differ from the tournament Delves.
Errr... the Delve is a format used in tournaments, where PCs are dropped in a dungeon and the last player alive wins (or the one with most kills, I forget). Delves offer no story, hooks, or history; they are meant to be tactical meat-grinders - nothing more. I very much doubt this product will differ from the tournament Delves.
I guess you'll probably be disappointed then. That happens when you use faulty information to base an opinion on.
The D&D Delve is neither a last person standing or most kills event with a winner. It's a team based event where you have a certain period of time to complete the section you are in. You play until you are all dead, time runs out, or you beat it. You are reward tokens (as a team) that can then be used for various delve rewards (special dice, cards, alt-paint mini's, and at some shows limited edition artwork worth $100's).
I will agree that our delves are not designed to be RP events. You have 30 minutes (20 in the past but we moved it up some for 4h edition to start as people get used to the rules) to complete something.
__________________ Dave C
RPGA Guru
RPGA Senior GM (DDXP, Gencon, Origins)
As a fan and hoarder of Dungeon tiles, DDMs, and 4E, and having a severe lack of gaming and prep time, this book appears to be perfect for me. If so, I hope it spawns sequels!
So, other than the nature of the "win," (which is not particularly relevant), how was I wrong?
Also, I recall a conversation with a part-time WotC employee a few years ago (2006, I think) about "the most number of PCs killed in a Delve," where he referred to killing one PC in the Delve before another was thrown in. Maybe these were the original rules which got changed?
BTW, as someone who is not buying 4E products, I am completely neutral on the subject. If you have more information about the product (as opposed to the Delve format used in tournaments/conventions, which obviously cannot be applied to home games - unless the intention is for players to gain tokens which they could use in regular RPG games?), please provide it.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
