General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Why not? I can download both mags to my computer and do something with them (burn them to CD, put them on tape, put on a back HD, etc.). I have no idea what I can or cannot do with the other tools that are not online yet.
Magazines - yes.
Other content - no, they've already stated that as it would lead to pirating, i.e. the Rules Compendium
Other content - no, they've already stated that as it would lead to pirating, i.e. the Rules Compendium
Well, the Rules Compendium is simply a reprint of the PHB and Dragon and Dungeon rules all in one location. So there's really no need to be able to back it up electronically if you still have a hard copy of the PHB and have backed up Dragon and Dungeon.
This really brings up another point, first I didn't have to print Dragon or Dungeon so it isn't "still printable"...the fact of the matter is that even though you raise the issue of an $18 decrease in price...how much are you spending on ink and paper to print out (in a much lower quality) these magazines? A color and B/w cartridge for my printer runs in the realm of $40.
I can see where some might be unhappy, if they want to make the magazine into the print version. Yes it will be costly.
same was true on the opposite end for me. The time it took me to scan/ocr an article (let alone a whole magazine) the few times I tried wasn't worth it.
I do most of my game prep on the computer, and therefore having a digital copy that I can cut/paste is well worth that price to me. Having that information also seperated into a searchable list is an added bonus.
I will admit reading off a screen is harder then paper format, so I can see that if you're not like me, and you don't do a ot of computer prep work, you might not be happy with it.
I personally am happy with function over form.
In anycase, just like I didn't use EVERY article or idea in Dragons of the past, I doubt I will use all of them in he new ones. So I won't print all of them. (And will most likely only print what I need cut/pasted from them.)
I will say that with the proliferation of laptops, mini-laptops like the EEE PC, phones like the iPhone and Tilt, pocket pcs like the iTouch, and things like that, I think less people will actually be printing them out.
You underestimate the power of written word. Magzines get lost or damaged...as do laptops. Lose that and it costs alot to replace. Lost teh magazine? $8 gets me another one.
But putting that aside, and all the arguements folks have raised against your points(and the silly assertion that we have no room to complain) you havent hit on:
Quality.
So far? Online Dungeon hasnt come close to the old print version in terms of good solid quality adventures. Just looking at the new AP....no its not worth it.
I really don't understand people that spend a lot of time on a message board complaining about digital content. This is the new medium. The future.
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I have no problem reading from a screen. I've read PDFs of all sorts, comic books, and even novels. There's still room for improvement in display technology and form factor, but it's not bad right now.
You don't have to print the whole thing, just the parts you might want to use. And only then if you can't stand to run things off screen. Back up your data and it's just as durable as paper. You can also search the text of a PDF for that one article you read a few years ago but can't remember the issue number of.
Must be gerneational. Because while I enjoy message boards reading and debating, I DONT like reading magazines online. Kolbold quarterly is nice, but I stopped because I dont want to read mazgaines that way. Its annoying. Same with FIREBASE magzine for warhammer 40k.
Online books/magazines are not the same thing as curling up with a good book or magazine, and taking it everywhere, including the bathroom.
But putting that aside, and all the arguements folks have raised against your points(and the silly assertion that we have no room to complain) you havent hit on:
Quality.
So far? Online Dungeon hasnt come close to the old print version in terms of good solid quality adventures. Just looking at the new AP....no its not worth it.
But who decides on the quality? I like the new AP. I have heard from a lot of people who do. I have also heard from folks who don't. There are other things in the magazines besides the AP to focus on, if you're looking for quality.
Besides, the last AP in print, Savage Tide, started off well but then quickly dissolved into a deadly nightmare, IMO. And I ran it for two different groups who had the same complaint. Just because it was in print, doesn't make the "quality" of it suddenly jump up.
Must be gerneational. Because while I enjoy message boards reading and debating, I DONT like reading magazines online. Kolbold quarterly is nice, but I stopped because I dont want to read mazgaines that way. Its annoying. Same with FIREBASE magzine for warhammer 40k.
Online books/magazines are not the same thing as curling up with a good book or magazine, and taking it everywhere, including the bathroom.
That was actually the problem I had with Print Dragon/Dungeon. They were a great read, but I never got around to using them. (Except very rarely.)
But who decides on the quality? I like the new AP. I have heard from a lot of people who do. I have also heard from folks who don't. There are other things in the magazines besides the AP to focus on, if you're looking for quality.
Besides, the last AP in print, Savage Tide, started off well but then quickly dissolved into a deadly nightmare, IMO. And I ran it for two different groups who had the same complaint. Just because it was in print, doesn't make the "quality" of it suddenly jump up.
I'd pit Paizo's adventure quality vs Wotc's any time any day. Its no contest there. And I wouldnt be alone. Adventures are not wotc's strong suit.
YOu have to be one of the few that didnt have some disappointment to the first AP.
You can also search the text of a PDF for that one article you read a few years ago but can't remember the issue number of.
Keep in mind that you still have to search *each and every* PDF. In 5 years time, that will be 60 PDFs for Dragon Magazine alone. Double that if the new magic item you're looking for actually appeared in Dungeon Magazine.
But they are supposed to put that into the rules compendium. So we will see how that goes.
Here are some reasons why I prefer printed over online:
1) In the 20 years that I have subscribed to the magazines I have read them in all kinds of places (sofa, chair, bathroom, before bedtime, on the bus, at a friends) but never, not once, have I read them at the computer.
2) The computer is in fact the least comfortable place for me to read my magazines.
3) With printed, twice a month, I got a pleasant surprise in my mailbox. It was a ray of sunshine in my otherwise dreary life. Even when the magazine content was bad, it still made my day better. I really, really miss that.
4) Online content doesn't come to me. I have to go to the WOTC website (assuming its up), enter my password, find the article/issue in question, and finally download it. None of this is paticularly onerous, but it is a far cry from a ray of sunshine.
Point number 4 is the real killer for me. I have realized over the past 10 months (has it been that long?) that I am not interested in hunting down material I have already paid for.
Keep in mind that you still have to search *each and every* PDF. In 5 years time, that will be 60 PDFs for Dragon Magazine alone. Double that if the new magic item you're looking for actually appeared in Dungeon Magazine.
yeah but making the computer search them all is much faster. And the computer is better suited to searching then I am. (it can search any word not just those in an index.)
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1) In the 20 years that I have subscribed to the magazines I have read them in all kinds of places (sofa, chair, bathroom, before bedtime, on the bus, at a friends) but never, not once, have I read them at the computer.
In the times I bought them, or subscribed to them, I read them the same... Then put them on a shelf and forgot the contents or where the contents were.
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3) With printed, twice a month, I got a pleasant surprise in my mailbox. It was a ray of sunshine in my otherwise dreary life. Even when the magazine content was bad, it still made my day better. I really, really miss that.
I get one everyday (for the most part) when the new article pops up.
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4) Online content doesn't come to me. I have to go to the WOTC website (assuming its up), enter my password, find the article/issue in question, and finally download it. None of this is paticularly onerous, but it is a far cry from a ray of sunshine.
Point number 4 is the real killer for me. I have realized over the past 10 months (has it been that long?) that I am not interested in hunting down material I have already paid for.
I had to go to the mailbox or mail slot to get the magazine, then flip to te page the article was one.
I don't think you could use most of the dungeons from the mags. With three adventures a month I found that an adventure would take at least 2 months to complete... playing every week. Now that we've cut back to every other week... well ...
I had to go to the mailbox or mail slot to get the magazine, then flip to te page the article was one.
Just a diferent way of doing things.
Not to mention bookmarking the index pages of the current month's issue in question on my browser! I can get them just as quickly, in truth. I still prefer paper, but whether that paper is printed out, or a bought magazine, I don't mind.
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
Not to mention bookmarking the index pages of the current month's issue in question on my browser! I can get them just as quickly, in truth. I still prefer paper, but whether that paper is printed out, or a bought magazine, I don't mind.
There's no doubt that reading paper is easier. That I will agree 100%
And if dragon/dungeon were supposed to be read only I would readily agree print format as standard would be the best format.
But they're designed to be used, and I don't think the argument can stand that print can in anyway be a better format then digital...
It's the same reason companies are switching from paper to digital archiving. I work in te health insurance industry. There's a BIG push to move all claims submission from paper to digital.
For information designed to be used, digital is king.
They're also switching for a massive cost reduction, in addition to the environmental benefits (which aren't top of many corporations minds, despite what they might say ).
That depends again on you definition of how you use it. I bring my magazine to a friends house to play, I don't have a laptop (at least one that I can put non-work material on) so for me, I find more use out of a hard copy...
Also, when we play the lights are usually dim, or by candlelight, and having a bright monitor on casting it's glow would break the mood. If I need to reference a rule from Dragon I annotate it on my sheet.
They're also switching for a massive cost reduction, in addition to the environmental benefits (which aren't top of many corporations minds, despite what they might say ).
Which the same can be said about me too... All those Dragons and Dungeons on my shelf take up space. Space that my non gaming fiance grumbles about. Digital and not on the shelf for her to grumble at is definitely an environmental benefit!
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That depends again on you definition of how you use it. I bring my magazine to a friends house to play, I don't have a laptop (at least one that I can put non-work material on) so for me, I find more use out of a hard copy...
Also, when we play the lights are usually dim, or by candlelight, and having a bright monitor on casting it's glow would break the mood. If I need to reference a rule from Dragon I annotate it on my sheet.
Copy/paste is faster then copy a rule by hand.
What if you want to use rules from 20 difefrent dragons? You luge all of them over there?
I'd much prefer to be able to copy/paste the specific item I need.
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