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12th August 2008, 04:27 AM
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#101 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Warren, OH
Posts: 2,051
| This can only be good. Even if it won't take care of EVERY concern, it should definitely bring more people on board.
As a side note, can we merge these two topics? It's kinda annoying jumping back and forth between them.
Thanks
Chris
__________________ Quote: |
Originally Posted by Filcher Give the kobolds box cutters and an airline ticket and they will bring down the U.S. | | 
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12th August 2008, 04:31 AM
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#102 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,646
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Xtheth  I am trying to write up a campaign I ran and would love to be able to publish it for 4E, and hopefully the new GSL will give me a little bit more leg room when it comes to what I can and can't put in my adventure.
I'm fairly certain that this campaign will help me break out of "doing what jobs I can to survive" and bust into "doing what I love for money" and I sure that a more open and friendly GSL will help me greatly. | Barring a one-in-a-billion long shot, just about anything you can do to earn money will earn you more money than RPG writing. Do it for the love, and consider the money an added bonus. And try to have a spouse with good health insurance.
__________________ Post-Gencon Update! Breakfast Crunch! Daily (Weekdays) useful stuff for your RPG needs! This week is Zombie Week! You can has feed! LizardGames, now in easy-to-read Feed form! Do you have mad 133t Joomla and CSS skills? Do you want to do unpaid work on a site hardly anyone knows exists? If so, email me! (Hey, I'm honest, at least...) | |
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12th August 2008, 04:43 AM
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#103 (permalink)
| | 31st level DM
Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Everwhere and nowhere at the same time
Posts: 622
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Not to sound too cynical, but have you spoken with people like Ari Marmel (Mouseferatu) and Phil Reed (Phil_Reed) yet? They're full-time and quite successful freelancers, and have some really good insights into getting into the field. Their advice might or might not be disparaging to you, but I highly recommend talking to them, and Clark Peterson (Orcus), if you haven't done so. | I haven't talked to anyone realy. My main focus is gathering the will to write it. Every time I try to, somthing distracts me. After I get the writing thing down, then I'll start talking about putting it into print.
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Rouse "You called Master?" | Amateur Writer trying to break into the RPG buisness.
Works in progress:
Level 1-30 D&D 4E campaign
D&D 4E Campaign setting
Other minor works | |
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12th August 2008, 04:51 AM
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#104 (permalink)
| | Monster Book Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Virginia
Posts: 16,429
| Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkinglidda Is "opener" a word?
That's the hope.  | Sounds like improvements.
Cautiously optimistic. | |
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12th August 2008, 04:52 AM
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#105 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 287
| Quote:
Originally Posted by thundershot This can only be good. Even if it won't take care of EVERY concern, it should definitely bring more people on board. | I would just like to disagree in part...I would say that, as bad as the GSL is, it can only be bad or NEUTRAL. It is unlikely, but completely possible, that this announcement is meant to calm the masses, but that the actual changes are not enough.
My biggest worry is that they will have HUGE positive changes, but will keep the 'oh, and we can change the rules at any time and you must obey' clause...if that happens, all the positive changes are meaningless, and it appears even more like a trap for the foolish.
As far as the sales data, or success/failure of 4e...I don't know that I'll dispute the NYT list, but Amazon ranks are notoriously goofy on some product lines, and sales data from WOTC is likely unreliable.
I say that because more often than not big company sales figures are sell TO, and not sell THROUGH...they might not do it this way, but often the numbers quoted are sold INTO the channels...so if they sell 4M to stores, that is their sales figure, even if 3.9M are just sitting on shelves. | |
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12th August 2008, 04:56 AM
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#106 (permalink)
| | Optimism; it feels better
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,329
| Excellent news from WOTC!
Here's to being more opener and some Necro goodness.
__________________ Game on, gang! Ptolus #16 (with customized, personalized sig from Monte. Awesomesauce.), Rappan Athuk Reloaded #37 (Another Awesomesauce, the Necromancer way.) Try to not let failure to use technical language properly get in the way of getting to the real point under discussion. - Umbran | |
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12th August 2008, 05:32 AM
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#107 (permalink)
| | Muad'dib of the Anauroch
Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: “Over the Hills and Far Away” - (TDY in Florida - "Home" is Michigan)
Posts: 1,546
| Quote:
Originally Posted by phloog . . .My biggest worry is that they will have HUGE positive changes, but will keep the 'oh, and we can change the rules at any time and you must obey' clause...if that happens, all the positive changes are meaningless, and it appears even more like a trap for the foolish. . . |
I have a question about this concept. I was looking at the old OGL and compared it to the new GSL. If I read them right, I think these are the differences: OGL: WoTC could update the license at any time, however, if you had a product already in print, that was in compliance with the license at the time of it's development, then you could continue to print and sell that product even if it didn't comply with the current license. GSL: WoTC can update the license at any time. If any products you are printing or selling are not in compliance, you cannot continue to sell them until they are made compliant.
Is this correct?
If it is I understand 3PP opposition to this part of the GSL. If this is correct, that means that WoTC could make a license change and leave you stuck with a bunch of stock you can't legally sell - and must redo your product to bring it into compliance - even if it was in compliance when originally produced.
Right? Yes? No? Kind-Of? 
__________________ Mark "El Mahdi" Armstrong - Semper Operor Verus ". . . after all, that is why we're here. Kill the last bad guy and then there's cake." - Major General Jack O'Neal "Don't Just Do It, Just Do It Right!" "Right, without Reason, is unmitigated Foolishness." "If you make a mistake, Acknowledge It, then make it Right." OGL Forever! | |
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12th August 2008, 05:44 AM
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#108 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 983
| Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkinglidda Is "opener" a word?
That's the hope. | If kisses could be digitized, well, consider yourself kissed. This is great news for D&D fans! While the general public will never know what sort of discussions have taken place, based on information from various sources it seems that you've been hard at work to make this a possibility. Thanks! | |
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12th August 2008, 06:51 AM
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#109 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 710
| wow
this is really great news! I look forward to reading about the changes!
Ken | |
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12th August 2008, 07:11 AM
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#110 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Aachen, Northrhine-Westphalia, Germany
Posts: 3,921
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Filcher Golly, what will we use to vilify Wizards now? | I am confident that we will think of something.
That reminds me: Has anyone started spelling WotC with "$" signs inside the name yet? That's vital for "sticking it to the Man", you know. | |
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12th August 2008, 07:18 AM
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#111 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,836
| Quote:
Originally Posted by darjr Scroll down a bit. It is in the news section. | For me, all of those lower panels are blank. I've tried several times throughout the day.
__________________ ADVANCED DUNGEONS &DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity. This is not to say that where it does not interfere with the flow of the game that the highest degree of realism hasn‘t been attempted, but neither is a serious approach to play discouraged. (1E DMG p. 9)
Dan's Diminutive d20 (v1.1): http://www.superdan.net/dimd20/
Delta's D&D Hotspot: http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/ | |
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12th August 2008, 07:37 AM
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#112 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 506
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert I am confident that we will think of something.
That reminds me: Has anyone started spelling WotC with "$" signs inside the name yet? That's vital for "sticking it to the Man", you know. | $E has been around for a while. I don't think I've seen much of Ha$bro, but I might just be forgetting. | |
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12th August 2008, 07:42 AM
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#113 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gensokyo
Posts: 2,044
| I can only see this as being a good change. I really doubt lack 4e is hurting right now, but it's easy to see that the GSL was causing an already bad rift to get worse, and hopefully this can help patch it up, as well as allowing 4e fans to play the games they want with the 3rd person parties that want to join in.
__________________
Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!" | |
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12th August 2008, 07:47 AM
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#114 (permalink)
| | Still a 4on
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Katrineholm
Posts: 2,683
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert I am confident that we will think of something.
That reminds me: Has anyone started spelling WotC with "$" signs inside the name yet? That's vital for "sticking it to the Man", you know. | WoTC cleverly chose an acronym with no 'S' in it just to avoid such defacement. There is a reason they are not Sorcerers of The Sound. | |
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12th August 2008, 07:48 AM
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#115 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern Reaches
Posts: 164
| Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mahdi OGL: WoTC could update the license at any time, however, if you had a product already in print, that was in compliance with the license at the time of it's development, then you could continue to print and sell that product even if it didn't comply with the current license. | Not just that. I can use any version of the license I wish to use as long as I include the license for the portions used from open gaming content if it is released under a different license. I can use the very first OGL today if I want. I can use the material released under it as well. I can use material from every version of the OGL and then release my work under the first OGL. I just need to satisfy the requirement about including the license for the open gaming content used. The OGL explicitly protected its users from possible future license changes. It's perpetual as well, Wizards can never do a "takesy-backsies" on OGL stuff.
This is not the case with the current GSL (which is better compared to the d20 license than the OGL).
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12th August 2008, 08:16 AM
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#116 (permalink)
| | The EN World kitten
Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: eastern United States
Posts: 6,754
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostmarrow WoTC cleverly chose an acronym with no 'S' in it just to avoid such defacement. There is a reason they are not Sorcerers of The Sound. | Let's just call them Wot¢.
__________________ Need an informed review of a product? No problem! Check out my RPGnow Staff Reviews! | |
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12th August 2008, 09:45 AM
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#117 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Falkirk, Scotland
Posts: 3,167
| That they are making changes is good news. Whether these changes are the right changes, and whether they go far enough are different questions.
I'm cautiously optimistic. | |
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12th August 2008, 09:49 AM
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#118 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,836
| Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mahdi Right? Yes? No? Kind-Of? | Kind-of. I'll agree with your assessment of the weakness of the GSL (termination/change at any time). But you've missed the real strength of the OGL, and overlooked the d20 STL entirely. I'll try a fix: OGL/d20 STL: Two licenses that build on each other. The OGL is irrevocable and permanent and allows you to publish D&D compatible stuff, forever. The d20 STL adds the ability to use a D&D-authorized logo/trademark -- but it can be changed/revoked at any time by WOTC.
Note that it's the d20 STL that is really the equivalent of 4E's GSL. Both were revocable by WOTC. However, if that happened with the d20 STL you could basically just strip off the logo and fall back to publishing your product via the permanent OGL.
The GSL has no such "safety net" backup license. And that's the inherent, unfixable problem.
__________________ ADVANCED DUNGEONS &DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity. This is not to say that where it does not interfere with the flow of the game that the highest degree of realism hasn‘t been attempted, but neither is a serious approach to play discouraged. (1E DMG p. 9)
Dan's Diminutive d20 (v1.1): http://www.superdan.net/dimd20/
Delta's D&D Hotspot: http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/ | |
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12th August 2008, 10:06 AM
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#119 (permalink)
| | Arch Chancellor
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oldenburg, Germany
Posts: 12,840
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert I am confident that we will think of something.
That reminds me: Has anyone started spelling WotC with "$" signs inside the name yet? That's vital for "sticking it to the Man", you know. | Did already happen... If I just knew where, I could link to it... 
-----
And let's not forget the real topic:
This sounds like good news. I just hope that this time, when WotC says very soon, they mean it.
__________________ Mustrum "Gummibärchen helfen auch" Ridcully Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
Last edited by Mustrum_Ridcully; 12th August 2008 at 10:09 AM..
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12th August 2008, 10:30 AM
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#120 (permalink)
| | Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 555
| Can we now put to bed the ridiculous idea that WotC wanted to get rid of 3pp support?
__________________
"Jello monster" is a pretty strong flavour concept
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