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First off, this is a bit of a lengthy post, and I'm looking to solict responses from people "in the know" about D&D miniatures, the new plastic pre-paints, and so forth. I hope you'll bear with me.
I’ve been slowly getting into 4th edition D&D, and one of the things I’d like to do is build up my miniatures collection. I know there are other mechanisms for representations of monsters in gaming (I’ve used ‘em all, and I respect ‘em all, and have access to them) but I like miniatures. I like pretty terrain, and little guys on the field.
So before anybody suggests just printing off paper miniatures, recognize that this is a labour of love. This is taking it to the next level. An aesthetic goal, if you would.
I want miniatures -- of some sort. But pretty!
I’m not adverse to painting the occasional miniature, but the plastic pre-paints really do make life *so* much easier! However, I hate-Hate-HATE the fact that they’re part of a collectible game, and as such you’re never sure what you need, how much it’ll cost, and so forth.
Now, while I recognize that having miniatures adds to the visual appeal of the game, at a certain point the pocket-book begins to moan, and you have to start making some adjustments. Thus, while it would be wonderful to field 8 different types of kobolds, realistically you usually only might need 3 (at most) in an encounter. Probably 8 max of one type, 4 of another, and 2 of a third. You can use your imagination and descriptive powers to fill in the blanks, and change descriptions as need be. Thus, the miniature of the kobold holding the sword can *actually* represent the two Wyrmpriests in one encounter, or the two Dragonshields in another encounter.
So, too, am I not adverse to substituting one type of miniature for a similar type. Thus, while it would be nice to field a bunch of orcs, and hobgoblins, and goblins, and gnolls, realistically they’re all “monstrous humanoids” and you can probably make do with just one type. Then, when you’re fighting Hobgoblins, you just use your orc miniatures. Same when you’re fighting Gnolls.
However, when you need to fight, say, a spider, you don’t want to haul out an orc (medium-to-large humanoid) or a kobold (small humanoid).
And so I got to thinking.
What are the categories, the general “miniature modes” that might be necessary to hit, if one were to try to fill a roster.
Say one were trying to build, from scratch, a set of miniatures that they could use to play 4th edition D&D in a campaign. You want to have a reasonable chance of throwing a representative miniature on the table, but you don’t want to be buying every single rare, dead-end oddity on the off-chance that you need it. You need multiples for when you need to field units which come in multiples, and you need alternates for those species which field a variety of types in their encounters. Substitutions within reason are perfectly allowed, but at a certain point a new category starts to present itself.
… and that is where you, the community, come in. What are these categories? What to buy?
So where to start?
Here are my initial thoughts …
Taking my cues from 1st to 10th level only
Swarm
Small Mammal (rat-sized)
Insect (Beetle, Scorpion, Spider)
Very Large Segmented Insectoid (Centipede, Grick, Carrion Crawler)
Medium Mammal (wolf, panther, boar)
Large Mammal (bear, dire creatures)
Legged Reptile (Drakes, )
Snake (all kinds)
Winged Animal (bat, bird)
Small Monstrous Humanoid (kobold, Goblin)
Small “Regular” Humanoid (Halfling, dwarf, gnome)
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Orc, Hobgoblin, Gnoll)
Medium “regular” Humanoid (elf, human, etc.)
Reptilian Humanoid (Lizardman, Ophidian, Yuan-ti, Troglodyte, Sahaugin – which I know are fishy, but …)
Large Monstrous Humanoid (troll, Ogre)
And then these are the individual monsters which stand out as iconic enough to merit consideration …
Otyugh, Grell, Owlbear, Displacer Beast, and a host of others. But these 4 popped out to me.
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So, I’ve been holding off on spending money on new miniatures. I didn’t want to buy a big random lot of mostly heroic figures, ‘cause they’d really only fall into one or two of those categories. Why spend money on a "deal" which only lets you field 25 pale-faced man-sized humanoids when what you want to represent are monsters?!
What I’d dearly love is to get, in each of the larger humanoid categories, 6 of one type, 4 of another, and 2 of a third. Thus, you could have 6 orcs-with-spears, 4 orcs-with-swords and throwing-axes, and 2 orcs-with-shiny-armour-and-helmets. An obvious, visual hierarchy.
Or do you suggest more? Alternate numbers?
Even better, if people have suggestions as to obvious splits for some of the categories, feel free to make them.
If, say, you find that you just run into so many Orcs *and* so many Hobgoblins that it makes sense to get a full set of both, then say so (instead of just trying to make one massive set of “medium-sized-monstrous-humanoids” do double-duty for both).
After all, we’re looking to get maximum enjoyment, here.
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So give me your advice. Give me your thoughts. Give me your lists, your breakdowns, your suggested price-schemes, anything you want.
Heck, if you have spare miniatures, give me those!
But seriously, any advice you have, I will happily take!
‘cause when all’s said and done, I’d love to hear what people in the ‘know’ have to tell me.
Just so you know, you're heading down a slippery slope my friend!
I've been collecting metal and plastic minis for many years now, as well as making my own, usually by downloading official pictures from WotC and photoshopping them into the correct sizes for laying down on the battleboard.
If you shop around, and the previous poster has some good links, you should be able to find some appropriate minis.
The tricky thing is that you'll find older minis are harder to find, or more expensive, even for commons or uncommons. Ideally, the best way to buy them is within a few months after the release of a set, when you can buy commons 5 for a $1.
As for the owbear and displacer and other iconics, the good news is that WotC has released multiple versions of these so the newer ones can still be found and won't cost you too much, between $5 and $10. Or maybe that IS too much, depending on your pocketbook.
First of all, 6-4-2 may not be enough. It depends on how much you like minions. Personally, I love minions and use them a lot - I like giving my PCs a chance to blast and slaughter their way through a swarm of enemies. It means I need a lot of minis, though.
Second, the secondary market is your friend. You can get piles of mook minis online for 30-50 cents apiece. I highly recommend it.
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I might suggest Reaper Miniature's Legendary Encounters. While slightly more expensive then the secondary DDM market, I like to support them for putting out non-random minis.
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Last edited by Alaxk Knight of Galt; 29th August 2008 at 05:03 PM..
I might suggest Reaper Miniature's Legendary Encounters. While slightly more expensive then the secondary DDM market, I like to support them for putting out non-random minis.
Michael
Yeah, i bought a few of them, but i just wasn't that impressed by the quality. They're not as good looking as the metal counterparts (even unpainted), and usually not as good as some of the wizards stuff. Still, i think they'll get better if the line can continue.
It's the cheap secondary market that really hurts them. Orcs don't cost crap in bulk.
When I want to buy thuglies in bulk, I go to ebay. Troglodyte x 5 for $1? I'll get four sets. Done!
Just watch out for the S&H. A lot of ebay stores charge so much for S&H that the mini on the main page listed at a dollar more actually comes out costing less.
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Just watch out for the S&H. A lot of ebay stores charge so much for S&H that the mini on the main page listed at a dollar more actually comes out costing less.
Indeed! If you have any questions about how a seller's combined shipping worded, ask before you buy and be a specific as possible!
Also Ebay has really put the screws to Buy it now style auctions so don't be to surprised as 'flat rate shipping' goes away.
edit
Swarm > Halloween small bug toys Small Mammal (rat-sized) > Halloween small toys Insect (Beetle, Scorpion, Spider) > Halloween small bug toys Very Large Segmented Insectoid (Centipede, Grick, Carrion Crawler) > Halloween bug toys & Learning store toys Medium Mammal (wolf, panther, boar)> Learning store toys, bags of plastic animals Large Mammal (bear, dire creatures)> Learning store toys, bags of plastic animals Legged Reptile (Drakes, ) > Learning store toys, bags of plastic animals Snake (all kinds) > Learning store toys, bags of plastic animals, Gumball machines Winged Animal (bat, bird) > Halloween toys, Learning store toys, bags of plastic animals Large Monstrous Humanoid (troll, Ogre) > Smaller toys, Mage Knight, other CMG’s Construct (golem, animated statue, warforged) > Smaller toys, Mage Knight, other CMG’s Amorphous – (Jelly/Ooze/Shambling Mound) > Glass beads, melted wax over wire frame Winged Humanoid (imp, devil) > Smaller toys, Mage Knight, other CMG’s Dragon > Smaller toys, toys, other CMG’s
I'd suggest a slightly different strategy. Your plan is a kind of "top-down" plan to figure out what you need, then go and buy it. I would suggest that that you should start with a "bottom-up" approach of browsing the last few sets, seeing what is really cheap, and buying a whole bunch of really cheap minis. Once that is done, you can figure out what the "holes" are in your collection and whether it is worth the price.
Unless you are a completionist, you can get some very good deals on attractive commons and uncommons because collectors may not go for them.
For example, browsing Auggie's store, I find the following: Against The Giants
Deathpriest of Orcus $0.79
Cave Bear $0.89
Ravenous Dire Rat $0.33
Dungeon of Dread
Orc Raider $0.33
Chillborn Zombie $0.25
Warrior Wight $0.89
Magma Brute $0.69
Ice Archon $0.89
Bugbear Headreaver $0.45
Goblin Picador $0.33
Human Fighter $0.45
Iron Defender $0.25
Dire Wolf $1.99
Deathjump Spider $0.33
Giant Centipede $0.33
Desert of Desolation
Animated Statue (doubles as ghost) $0.25
Farmer $0.25
Visejaw Crocodile $0.89
Rot Scarab Swarm $0.39
Demonweb Swarm $0.29
Flame Snake $0.23
Large Fire Elemental $1.29
Snaketongue Cultist $0.25
Something I'd like to see Wizards do is sell categorised miniatures based on the monster manual - or even be as specific as selling miniatures per module! I know I like to run encounters of all one creature type from time to time - today I ran two Shadar-kai chainfighters, two Shadar-kai gloomblades, and a Shadar-kai witch. So wouldn't it be nice if I could buy a box set that entirely consists of Shadar-kai?
Or I could buy a box set with a bunch of kobolds, goblins and hobgoblins for Keep on the Shadowfell. Really, I've never bought a single miniature direct from Wizards (always going through resellers) because of the ridiculous "random selection" model they've gone for.
If you're planning on getting into DDM figures, I really recommend patience. Don't try to fill your entire collection in one swell foop. Rather, accumulate them over a period of time and let accretion do its magic.
There are a few reasons for this:
1) Different versions of the same creature have different looks. This is useful for identifying them when they're actually on the table and individuals sustain different afflictions. Likewise, it can be nice to present a motley crew rather than a uniform one.
2) They also have different stats. Just the other night I grabbed my bag of troglodytes and by using the different stat cards was able to make an encounter suitable for 9th level PCs with no prep work. So handy!
3) A particular sculpt may be rare in one set and a very similar one may be common in the next. This alone can save you a lot of money, but requires a lot of patience.
4) You'll find killer deals come up occasionally. If you hit those when you find them, you can even get some rares for quite cheap.
-blarg
__________________ Red Hot Swing
"In Inspired Sarlona, nightmares have you!" -Klaus
It can be worthwhile to buy randomized minis, so don't discount it completely.
I've used more of the randomized minis than I ever expected I would. Maybe the players go someplace you don't expect, or maybe an adventure comes out that you want to run that features a particular monster. Sometimes a sculpt you thought you'd hate turns out to be your favourite of the bunch, and other times it will have stats or a write-up that really gets your gears turning. The point is, let yourself be inspired by the randomness. It may take you someplace fun that you never expected.
So here's my guide to buying DDM:
1) Browse the set galleries on the wizards site for sets that you dig.
2) If you'd like all of the rares and one or more of the rest of the set, buy a case of it. (don't spend more than $135 or so)
3) Once you've received them, fill in holes with the secondary singles market. If you're going to buy any randoms, always get them first before cherry picking the rest.
I hope this helps!
-blarg
__________________ Red Hot Swing
"In Inspired Sarlona, nightmares have you!" -Klaus
Part of the fun of DDM is not knowing what you're getting from the packs. Occasionally it's frustrating (I don't need another Changeling Rogue, dammit!), but often it's exciting to get a new monster you've not seen before.
If you have the time or the inclination, buying boosters by the case at discounted prices and selling or trading the unwanted minis was how I built up my DDM collection. Now I just find it easier to buy complete sets.
As others have said, buying commons from singles sites is also a good route. If you see a piece you'd like but is too expensive, I'd hold off on getting it. Many of the most popular monsters have had cheaper resculpts. For example, if you think you might want at Large Black Dragon but don't like the price of the current version, wait until next set.
Legendary Encounters are ok, but not only are they more expensive but the line is really small, just a quarter the size of Harbinger. I imagine they are great if you literally have no minis and only want to run the most generic monsters: Orcs, Skeletons, etc. Not really Reaper's fault. There just doesn't seem to be a business model for meshing DDM's depth and price with LE's nonrandomness.
This seems like an appropriate place to quote Merric's Law of Miniatures: Non-Random Packaging, Cheap Prices, and a Large Range of Figures: Choose two.
__________________ Red Hot Swing
"In Inspired Sarlona, nightmares have you!" -Klaus
I was looking at some Dreamblade figures online that may fill some of those roles... I'm having some trouble figuring out the size. I saw a WotC post about using Dreamblade for D&D Minis that suggested they worked as Large figures (2x2) but have seen some other images that make me disbelieve. As my group is about to embark into the Feywild, I think many might be useful, but I'm still unsure of the size
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If you do get into buying random booster/cases, as it's been suggested, you can trade the miniatures you don't need for some you indeed might need. Also, some rare miniatures are pretty bland from a RPG perspective, but are worth a lot on the competitive DDM scene, so you might be able to trade 1 rare for multiple uncommons and commons to build your hordes.
As for Dreamblade miniatures, the biggest problem, to me, is the square base. The base fits for a Large creature, but not all miniatures actually qualify as Large creatures. There are a lot of miniatures that are more of the "tall medium" size (~the first DDM flesh golem). I got a bunch of uncommons and commons for cheap, and I separated most of them from their base with a large exacto knife. All I need now are generic, round, plastic bases to glue them on.
AR
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I've got tubs of "kobolds", "bugbears" etc, from nealry all the sets.
I'd recommend putting small labels, Dymo or whatever, on top of the bases, so you can identify them in a fight, like "1", "2" etc, makes it much easier to note which kobold is which in a fight!
Although minion mechanic in 4th ed makes "Mooks" easier ot run, not all enemies are mooks...
I'm going to buy a lot of thin, strong magnets and glue them to their bases, and buy the new magnetic grid roll up mat I've seen.
Plastic minis topple over too easy. But on the plus side, they don't weight a TON!! Urgh, mini boxes filled with lead ones weigh far too much.
The WOTC plastic mini animals are mostly pretty good, and I like them. There's even "bat Familiars" which are cool.
I LOVE the clear plastic minis for ghosts and elementals, very nice!
humanoids vary in quality though.
generally larger minis look better.
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