General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Someone's tiefling warlock and someone's dragonborn paladin and someone's eladrin ninjarogue will be able to tackle the castle and kill Strahd.
They never did this before?
Tieflings and warlocks have a great Ravenloft vibe IMO. Savage dragonborn warriors with Slavic or Romanian overtones could be neat as well. And nothing beats cruel-hearted, unseelie eladrin lords.
Tieflings and warlocks have a great Ravenloft vibe IMO. Savage dragonborn warriors with Slavic or Romanian overtones could be neat as well. And nothing beats cruel-hearted, unseelie eladrin lords.
Well, the Ravenloft that I most accurately remember (and it could be horribly distorted) was xenophobic to the point of hysteria, much like the stereotypical "Wallachias" of the Dracula-style movies. Insular, frightened, and over-protective, these villages shut their doors and their minds to all that is outside because everything outside -- from the wind to the sun to the ever-present mist -- is alien, evil, and possessed of a black soul of corruption.
A man walkin' around with devil horns or a dragon's maw or who can step in and out of space is going to be mobbed and killed by the first yokel strike team the village can assemble in a setting like that.
Now, it's possible that this isn't entirely accurate to the rest of the way the world has seen it, and instead has mostly been from my own DM's particular style. But those things you mention, in the Ravenloft I'm aware of, would all be monsters. Not PC's. It would be like making PC's who are "half-vampire" or somesuch -- an affront to the roots of gothic horror that treats the Other as something always to be terrified of.
Now maybe those would all work in a horror setting where PC's got to play as monsters (I'm looking forward to a werewolf PC!), but Ravenloft wasn't really that setting, AFAIR. But, again, that could've just been my DM's take on it.
The fact that the quote in the OP refers to the "Domains of Dread" and not just the Castle Ravenloft gives me hope that the demiplane will be existing in a more traditional way that some of you fear. I don't see how anyone could find it beneficial to just drop Barovia into the Prime of the PoL when adding in the entire plane would be pretty easy.
I don't expect we will get all of the domains in this initial release, but I would be surprised if any of the major ones were left out (Darkon, Tepest, Barovia, Sithicus, and Mordent to name a few). Most likely we will get a sweeping over view to be expanded at a later date.. I least I hope that is the case.
Again, I'm pretty sure they aren't going to put every single country from the Ravenloft Campaign Setting into the 4e default world. I'm certain that all they will do is make Castle Ravenloft a locale in the 4e world. This is similar to what they did with Sigil - they didn't bring in every aspect of Planescape into the 4e cosmology, just that one (really cool) piece.
In my original campaign, we had the Grand Conjunction occur and merged Ravenloft with the "real world". Rather than a demi-plane, the Mists imprisoned great evils in small domains/ sinkholes of evil. It worked fine for us.
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
I'd surmise that the Ravenloft content will be a series of articles: a 10-12 page overview/gazateer with some crunch (maybe backgrounds), another article with character options (feats, paragon paths), a bestiary article, and then maybe something describing some Ravenloft specific rules. However, all of this content will be applicable to non-Ravenloft campaigns.
Emo, as a descriptor for a music genre, is so vague as to be effectively worthless, since you have bands that range in style from Fugazi to Sunny Day Real Estate.
Fugazi is considered emo? Wow, I've been living in a cave for several years.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
__________________ I am a naughty lovecraftian goddess!
Fugazi is considered emo? Wow, I've been living in a cave for several years.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
Fugazi is part of the emotional hardcore movement (aka emo), which was a subgenre of hardcore punk that arose in Washington DC. However, when people use "emo" to disparage something nowadays, they are not talking about that type of music.
__________________ Veronica: Where's your brother?
Dick: I think he took Ghost World up to his room. They're probably up there making love. Or playing Dungeons and Dragons. Or both, at the same time. They're both, like, 12th-level dorks. I'm just sayin'
"Emo" has changed a lot. The current look of emo is pretty far detatched from what it used to be. You can thank the formulaic drivel of Dashboard for that.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
Fugazi is part of the emotional hardcore movement (aka emo), which was a subgenre of hardcore punk that arose in Washington DC. However, when people use "emo" to disparage something nowadays, they are not talking about that type of music.
Okay, thanks. I've been with Fugazi since 13 Songs; never heard the term emo til about four years ago. In context (as I've encountered it) I have to remind myself that it refers (originally) to a style of music even though I've never run across anyone actually using it as a descriptor.
__________________ I am a naughty lovecraftian goddess!
I thought it was because Weis & Hickman threw a hissy fit because Soth "their character", and then killed him so that nobody could use him anymore.
That was how this long time dragonlance fan heard the situation went down, but I could be clouded by bitterness.
I never saw an official statement about it, hence why I prefaced it as "rumor." But it wouldn't be the first time that creative people didn't agree on the future of an intellectual property.
Well, the Ravenloft that I most accurately remember (and it could be horribly distorted) was xenophobic to the point of hysteria, much like the stereotypical "Wallachias" of the Dracula-style movies. Insular, frightened, and over-protective, these villages shut their doors and their minds to all that is outside because everything outside -- from the wind to the sun to the ever-present mist -- is alien, evil, and possessed of a black soul of corruption.
The details varied from one domain to another, naturally enough, but at least the populace of the 3e campaign setting published by White Wolf was roughly about 99.9% human (or at least masquerading as human), and even elves suffered from an "Outcast Rating" of 3 which acted as a penalty to all social skills except Intimidate. Many would in all likelihood see them either as freaks who have mutilated their own ears or unnatural creatures in league with the powers of darkness. Being greeted by a mob with torches and pitchforks is a distinct possibility.
The details varied from one domain to another, naturally enough, but at least the populace of the 3e campaign setting published by White Wolf was roughly about 99.9% human (or at least masquerading as human), and even elves suffered from an "Outcast Rating" of 3 which acted as a penalty to all social skills except Intimidate. Many would in all likelihood see them either as freaks who have mutilated their own ears or unnatural creatures in league with the powers of darkness. Being greeted by a mob with torches and pitchforks is a distinct possibility.
I wouldn't be shocked to see this aspect changed somewhat. I suspect WotC wants to remove all "surprise, you're character is now useless" situations. I can see Barovia being unwelcome to all outsiders, but I'll be that they don't go out of their way to penalize particular races.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
I suspect WotC wants to remove all "surprise, you're character is now useless" situations. I can see Barovia being unwelcome to all outsiders, but I'll be that they don't go out of their way to penalize particular races.
Agreed, and too bad. The Core Settings (FR, Eb, "PoL-Land") can be a polyglot melting pot if that's what WotC wants, but other campaign settings should be free to play by different rules. No aquatic elves in Dark Sun, for instance.
If a DM took his Eb group (including an elf Chr-rogue) and forcably dropped them in Ravenloft to a greeting of "surprise, you're character is now useless", that would be Not Cool (TM). But with informed consent where everyone makes their characters in full knowledge of how the setting works no one would have to be "forced" into that situation.
That being said, WotC also has rule of "No bad choices", which I'm fine with as far as game design goes. It may be just easier to say "Look, Ravenloft is a xenophobic place. Don't make a character that 'looks funny' if you don't want them to get lynched."
I can hope, anyway.
__________________ I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
If a DM took his Eb group (including an elf Chr-rogue) and forcably dropped them in Ravenloft to a greeting of "surprise, you're character is now useless", that would be Not Cool (TM). But with informed consent where everyone makes their characters in full knowledge of how the setting works no one would have to be "forced" into that situation.
Part of the fun of DMing Ravenloft was getting the group into RL in such a way that they didn't KNOW they were in Ravenloft for a while. You have to know your players of course, but "atmosphere" tended to go by adventure rather than by setting for me.
As for Ravenloft's "human-centric" setting, while they tended to be human-centric in my game, the elves/gnomes weren't singled out or anything. All the PC's were set apart from society, if a human magic user or human fighter wandered into Barovia, they were looked on with suspicion until proven and needed.
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
It may be just easier to say "Look, Ravenloft is a xenophobic place. Don't make a character that 'looks funny' if you don't want them to get lynched."
I can hope, anyway.
Xenophobic is reasonably fine. I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the residents of the DoD will be untrusting of strangers. I just don't think its a great idea for that to come out as just afraid of anything not human, but any outsiders.
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
Getting back to Soth, he both left Ravenloft and was killed off before Sovereign Press knew they were getting the license for dragonlance, if memory serves me correctly.
Yes, Lord Soth left Ravenloft and returned to Dargaard Keep at the end of the Ravenloft novel Spectre of the Black Rose, which was published in March 1999. That was more than four years before Sovereign Press released Age of Mortals, and two years before the company was founded.
Xenophobic is reasonably fine. I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the residents of the DoD will be untrusting of strangers. I just don't think its a great idea for that to come out as just afraid of anything not human, but any outsiders.
In the Domains of Dread you should be afraid of anyone you haven't known your entire life. You should just be cautious of them.
Yeah Van Richten was cool
Very disgusted with way he, Khelben Blackstaff and Halaster got killed off, grr!!!
Never mind the Sorceror Kings in Dark Sun, double grr!!!!
They were never killed off! Oh, you mean what TSR and WOTC did with THEIR versions. Well, my versions are alive and well, thank you.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
As for making DoD part of the core, its easy to do. When I did my "Conglomerate World", where I have every setting I like that isn't its own full world, I put this HUGE black cloud bank down in the southwest corner between the continents of Airhde and the continent of Cascandia. Guess what that huge cloud bank encloses? Yep, you guessed it, the Domains of Dread. Works fine. I even threw in the Island of King Kong nearby just for the fun of it, since Necromancer Games did such a nice 3E version of it.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Agreed, and too bad. The Core Settings (FR, Eb, "PoL-Land") can be a polyglot melting pot if that's what WotC wants, but other campaign settings should be free to play by different rules. No aquatic elves in Dark Sun, for instance.
If a DM took his Eb group (including an elf Chr-rogue) and forcably dropped them in Ravenloft to a greeting of "surprise, you're character is now useless", that would be Not Cool (TM). But with informed consent where everyone makes their characters in full knowledge of how the setting works no one would have to be "forced" into that situation.
That being said, WotC also has rule of "No bad choices", which I'm fine with as far as game design goes. It may be just easier to say "Look, Ravenloft is a xenophobic place. Don't make a character that 'looks funny' if you don't want them to get lynched."
I can hope, anyway.
Well, only certain parts of Ravenloft are Xenophobic, meaning the full Domains of Dread. Plus, at the levels you were supposed to bring them into the setting in 2E (5th+ level IIRC) they were usually very capable of good basic disguises.
No one was ever useless in my games. Once they discovered disguises would be a good idea. Which the discovery was part of the fun, IMO.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
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