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I've been noticing a fair number of Cthulhu themed rpgs being published recently (i.e. Trail Of Cthulhu). Out of curiosity, has Lovecraft's work become 'public domain'?
I've been noticing a fair number of Cthulhu themed rpgs being published recently (i.e. Trail Of Cthulhu). Out of curiosity, has Lovecraft's work become 'public domain'?
__________________ ADVANCED DUNGEONS &DRAGONS is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek to use imagination and creativity. This is not to say that where it does not interfere with the flow of the game that the highest degree of realism hasn‘t been attempted, but neither is a serious approach to play discouraged. (1E DMG p. 9)
There are HPL-related trade marks that aren't in the public domain (I believe Call of Cthulu is a registered TM for RPGs). HPL's original works are mostly not in copyright though - either copyright has expired or it never existed in the first place due to lack of registration. It's the same for most of REH's Conan stories.
Anything before 1923 IS public domain, there are no exceptions. His work from 1923 on could possibly be under copyright but most are not since most were not renewed. Trademark never expires but the only Trademark is on the name Calll of Cthuhlu in relation to games (You could republish the story of the same name, or call a vacum cleaner that, or set up restaurant chain called that). If you want to use something from before 1923 you are 100% safe. If you want to use something from 1923 on you are probably safe, but to be 100% safe a check would have to be made on each seperate work. This is why you are now seeing more and more Lovecraft based games and items. Note as well not all Mythos works are safe as there are other autors who wrote Mythos stuff from 1923 on that are definitely still under copyright.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
the only Trademark is on the name Calll of Cthuhlu in relation to games (You could republish the story of the same name, or call a vacum cleaner that, or set up restaurant chain called that).
Now that is a restaurant I'd rather not visit.
On second thought... the menu looks rather... compelling....
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either copyright has expired or it never existed in the first place due to lack of registration. It's the same for most of REH's Conan stories.
Careful there. In North America at least, copyright exists as soon as something is put into a fixed form, even if no copyright notification is attached. Registration is required to pursue legal action, but it can take place after infringement.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice, but this is my understanding on the basis of dealing with copyright issues as a writer/research on the same.
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
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This topic was already covered here on the boards about six weeks ago, when I had the same question. Of course, the best thing to do is talk to a copyright lawyer, since the issue seems fairly nebulous.
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Careful there. In North America at least, copyright exists as soon as something is put into a fixed form, even if no copyright notification is attached. Registration is required to pursue legal action, but it can take place after infringement.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice, but this is my understanding on the basis of dealing with copyright issues as a writer/research on the same.
RC
That is true currently. Anything before 1923 is in public domain as all time limits have expired. However anything published from 1923-1963 had to be registered and periodically renewed. If it was not registered in the first place or properly renewed it passed into public domain (That is how allot of those $1 DVDs of old B movies are available). Then from 1964-1977 works still had to be registered and renewed at least one time. It was in 1978 that the current law was enacted and things were automatically copyrighted and no renewals are necessary.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
That is true currently. Anything before 1923 is in public domain as all time limits have expired. However anything published from 1923-1963 had to be registered and periodically renewed. If it was not registered in the first place or properly renewed it passed into public domain (That is how allot of those $1 DVDs of old B movies are available). Then from 1964-1977 works still had to be registered and renewed at least one time. It was in 1978 that the current law was enacted and things were automatically copyrighted and no renewals are necessary.
Cool. Thanks.
RC
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
On second thought... the menu looks rather... compelling....
[Yakov Smirnoff]In America, you order food. In Cthulhu restaurant, the food orders you.[/Yakov Smirnoff]
__________________ All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We’re at an impasse here; maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We’ll all come inside and eat your brains
Why are you asking? Just curiousity, or are you trying to publish something?
I'm already working something up for NaNoWriMo (that ideally I'd like to sell someday), and I'm name-dropping a few Lovecraftian references here and there, but that's as far as I was willing to go. Even then, I deliberately spelled them differently, mostly. Sorta like when wonder through weird tales fiction and you see Cthulhu, Clulu, Clooloo, Cighulu, Cathulu, Kutulu, Q’thulu, Ktulu, Kthulhut, Kulhu, Thu Thu, and who knows whatever else.
Of course, you could always Brian Lumley it; very Lovecraftian stories where he essentially created his own Great Old Ones and monsters from scratch rather than using Lovecraft's own.
Careful there. In North America at least, copyright exists as soon as something is put into a fixed form, even if no copyright notification is attached. Registration is required to pursue legal action, but it can take place after infringement.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice, but this is my understanding on the basis of dealing with copyright issues as a writer/research on the same.
RC
Yeah, well, I am an (academic) copyright lawyer.
Back in the 20s & 30s you had to register your copyright. It's different now.
Demonstrably not true. Take Kleenex as an example. Kleenex was the name of the company that produced the most popular tissue paper. It became a generic term and whe the Kleenex corporation challenged a company for referring to their tissues as Kleenexes they lost their trademark as it had transitioned into general usage.
Also, the example of Captain Marvel/Shazam. Originally Fawcett Publications owned the trademark to the name Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel etc. Fawcett never went out of business (they still exist) but they ceased publishing comics after legal pressures from DC Comics/National Periodical Publications in the early 1950s. The trademarks lapsed and were picked up by Marvel Comics in the mid sixties for their Captain Mar-vell/Marvel character. Marvel has continuously published some form of a Captain Marvel book in order to retain the trademark and DC, who bought the original characters from Fawcett, has to call their book Shazam.
Another example is the British Hero Marvelman/Miracleman. Marvel was able to force Alan Moore and Dez Skinn to change the name of the character in America because of trademark expiration issues. Marvel now owns the Marvelman trademark for a very minor character. Occasionally you will see an obscure character advertised prominently on a cover and this is the maintain the trademark.
Basically if Chaosium allows the term "Call of Cthulhu" to become a general usage term, then they CAN lose the trademark.
Demonstrably not true. Take Kleenex as an example. Kleenex was the name of the company that produced the most popular tissue paper. It became a generic term and whe the Kleenex corporation challenged a company for referring to their tissues as Kleenexes they lost their trademark as it had transitioned into general usage.
Also, the example of Captain Marvel/Shazam. Originally Fawcett Publications owned the trademark to the name Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel etc. Fawcett never went out of business (they still exist) but they ceased publishing comics after legal pressures from DC Comics/National Periodical Publications in the early 1950s. The trademarks lapsed and were picked up by Marvel Comics in the mid sixties for their Captain Mar-vell/Marvel character. Marvel has continuously published some form of a Captain Marvel book in order to retain the trademark and DC, who bought the original characters from Fawcett, has to call their book Shazam.
Another example is the British Hero Marvelman/Miracleman. Marvel was able to force Alan Moore and Dez Skinn to change the name of the character in America because of trademark expiration issues. Marvel now owns the Marvelman trademark for a very minor character. Occasionally you will see an obscure character advertised prominently on a cover and this is the maintain the trademark.
Basically if Chaosium allows the term "Call of Cthulhu" to become a general usage term, then they CAN lose the trademark.
True. But my point still stands as well. Trademark does not expire, but it does require maintence or it can be lost. As long as a company vigorously maintains it there is no expiration based on the duration from its inception.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Why are you asking? Just curiousity, or are you trying to publish something?
Actually, yes I am interested in publishing something, though I'm really just interested in using certain creatures and references. The project would not focus on the Mythos.
__________________ [A]ny good dungeon will have undiscovered treasures in areas that have been explored by the players, simply because it is impossible to expect that they will find every one of them.
RCFG - My free mostly-OGC OGL game! RCFG is intended to be a fusion between OS & NS playstyles, giving the advantages of SRD-based gaming coupled with quick character and adventure generation and an Old School feel.
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