General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
4e halflings are basically just kender. All they need is a racial power to taunt, some of their racial weapons thrown in, and viola, the mechanics are done.
I wrote an unofficial conversion document for our Races of Ansalon sourcebook and the Dragonlance Nexus put it online here.
It's definitely a work in progress—I've had some good feedback from the fans over at the Dragonlance forums already.
I can also pretty much be sure that they're not going to reboot it. That would annoy more people than you know.
Twelve!
(I kid because, between the ages of 10 and about 15, I loved.)
__________________ Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
Religion must remain an outlet for people who say to themselves, "I am not the kind of person I want to be." It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied.
(I kid because, between the ages of 10 and about 15, I loved.)
We do actually appreciate the YA audience over here, you know. That sector sells through ten times as many books as the adult one in the same categories within fantasy and sci-fi. If we're appealing to the 10-15 year olds, then bonus.
For sure. I mean, Dragonlance isn't to my taste at all anymore - but when I was that age, I quite literally tried to read and own every Dragonlance book. I did end up with several dozen before I lost interest.
__________________ Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
Religion must remain an outlet for people who say to themselves, "I am not the kind of person I want to be." It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied.
If your going to do all that, why not make a whole new world instead of destroying the things that make DL unquie among itself?
You missed my point. I'd keep all the things that make DL a unique, compelling, high drama world and drop things that get in the way. Not much gets the way, to be honest. But I think the setting should get a reset and reinvigoration.
Quote:
Draconian are not dragonborn. They were something unique to DL that the dark queen twisted good dragon eggs to evil....there are no good evquivilants. Nor should there be.
Well, you're certainly entitled to feel that way. However, I feel like that limits the possible stories to be told by the setting and works to DL's detriment.
Quote:
Its like FR all over again.
Honestly, if DL got something like the 4e FR treatment, I think it would be a better setting. The changes to FR have really energized FR IMO.
You missed my point. I'd keep all the things that make DL a unique, compelling, high drama world and drop things that get in the way. Not much gets the way, to be honest. But I think the setting should get a reset and reinvigoration.
Well, you're certainly entitled to feel that way. However, I feel like that limits the possible stories to be told by the setting and works to DL's detriment.
Honestly, if DL got something like the 4e FR treatment, I think it would be a better setting. The changes to FR have really energized FR IMO.
Point one and point two and point three are a contradiction.You cant keep eveything unique and then turn around and destroy much of the setting like FR and re-energize the setting. Doesnt work.
Limits, rather than evenything including the kitchen sink approach 4e seems to espouse wouldnt work.Kender arent halflings. Draconians arent dragonborn. Tieflings do not fit at all. There's no demons that I recall in my memory.
DL's limits are what made the story. And further story. DL had a stroy to tell and told it well. Its like saying...yeah LotR's had a great tale, BUT its limiting lets throw in some Dragonborn or Tielflings. And change those damned dwarves and elves.And throw out the story that it told altogether.
So, you're saying that the Noble Draconians entry in the Bestiary of Krynn (pages 16-24) doesn't exist?
4e halflings are basically just kender. All they need is a racial power to taunt, some of their racial weapons thrown in, and viola, the mechanics are done.
Yup. I think thats total abomination. There were no good ones in my day.
Tieflings do not fit at all. There's no demons that I recall in my memory.
I had both tieflings AND demons in Price of Courage, the mega-adventure we published a year or two ago. And they had good reasons to be in there! True story.
Take a look at the combined monster statistics charts in the original DL modules, too. Several of them look like an index to Fiend Folio or Monster Manual II. Dragonlance had shadow dragons and wemics before the Realms had even been published as a campaign setting outside of Ed's Dragon articles.
Point one and point two and point three are a contradiction.You cant keep eveything unique and then turn around and destroy much of the setting like FR and re-energize the setting. Doesnt work.
It does, and FR is proof that it does.
In any case, I don't want to do anything to the setting. I want to start over, taking all the good ideas from the past, and a few of the new ones. I don't want to "destroy" anything.
In any case, I don't want to do anything to the setting. I want to start over, taking all the good ideas from the past, and a few of the new ones. I don't want to "destroy" anything.
FR is doing well due to bieng the only real supplement out for DD 4e and the Living Campaign. I think far more people are cutting it for parts than really redoing FR, save for the RPGA. Which to WOTC's credit is what they wanted it to be, part of core. I have a feeling a new setting in the same situation would have done as well. (Note: While I dont like many changes my group is using the books for many things, so a + from me)
The question for Dragonlance is does it bring enough new stuff to the table, or does DDI support do enough to cover it? If they want to start over why not just make a new world with the lessons from dragonlance? 4e's new world.
Id prefer Planescape and Spelljammer since they will expand the Paragon and Epic landscape. More parts to pick from.
"I'm readying an action to Sunder the Dragonlance setting when it comes within range."
I was vaguely interested until "kender". Now: ugh.
I'm frankly shocked you hadn't heard or read much about Dragonlance before, to be honest. It's one of the oldest and most successful D&D campaign settings in the world.
Kaz is my favorite Dragonlance character. He rocks!
__________________ Robert Blezard I write; therefore, I am!
D&D v.3.5, d20 Modern, OSRIC, Pathfinder, True20... OGL Forever! Walk the Road
Avatar by Sialia
I had both tieflings AND demons in Price of Courage, the mega-adventure we published a year or two ago. And they had good reasons to be in there! True story.
And it was a very nice adventure, too. However, most of the fellows that did Dl3e came from the old DL3e website, so compared to "classic" 'lance, it becomes just like the Magius language or like Noble Draconians: expanded universe aka, largely apocryphal, or to put it in the TVtropes.org way, the Inmates Running the Asylum.
Hell, most of the old fans that got out of DL don't count the Summer of Chaos onwards, as it was that stuff that alienated them from the setting.
__________________ Welcome....to the land of tomorrow!
I'm frankly shocked you hadn't heard or read much about Dragonlance before, to be honest. It's one of the oldest and most successful D&D campaign settings in the world.
I skipped late 1e, and all of 2nd edition. Most of what I know about FR is what I learned from Baldur's Gate II, and the 3.0e FRCS (which was a gorgeous book).
Basically, I had dropped the game between the 1st printing of Deities & Demigods and the 3.0e PHB.
Cheers, -- N
__________________
Brevity is the soul of wit, so trim your sig or look dumb.
As to whether it will work under 4e? Absolutely. I have every confidence that it will, and in fact in many ways it will work better with the current rules set than it did under 3.5. And I say that as one of MWP's 3.5 DL design team.
Hmm...I can see some difficulties with magic-users, given how heavily 1E's spellcasting system and weapon restrictions were written into the setting, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a workaround.
Quote:
I can also pretty much be sure that they're not going to reboot it. That would annoy more people than you know.
Cheers,
Cam
DL will never be rebooted entirely, for two simple reasons: Chronicles and Legends. Those products, for better or for worse (I say both, but I'm a former DL heretic and current apostate ), are the Foundation Stone of Dragonlance, to the point that all three DL game lines to date have ended their runs (or nearly so) with revisiting the classic storyline.
I would expect that a 4E DL is likely to consist entirely of or strongly focus around a revisiting of DL1-14.
Personally, while not a big fan of the Chaos War, I loved the War of Souls. It shook up the landscape, introduced new religious conflicts and new moral conflicts, and finally passed the torch from the Heroes of the Lance to the new generation. I thought it was long overdue and tastefully done, whereas the Chaos War seemed rushed and half-planned. Granted, I didn't read any books set after the war... outside of the Huma/Kaz books, I haven't read any of the alternate DL authors since Weasel's Luck first came out. If they wanted to start the new campaign setting right after the War of Souls, though, I'd be happy. Besides, I absolutely adore the Klingon-esque minotaurs; the Krynnish version has always been one of my favorite D&D races.
And for the record, kender aren't a bad racial concept. The reason there are a lot of DMs who won't allow them in play is that there are a lot of players out there who just play them as an excuse to be obnoxious. I've had plane-hopping games with kender in them both pre- and post-Planescape, including one large group I DMed for that had two of them. Yes, they added comic relief... but roleplayed maturely they are also a way to look at your fantasy setting through the eyes of youth and wonder. Kender should be optimistic, quick-witted, and constantly amazed at the niftiness of the world around them; this does not necessarily translate to 'glory-hog klepto who TPKs the party,' no matter how many juvenile con-goers have played them that way. The way I've dealt with those who play them disruptively is the same way I deal with anyone else playing an obnoxious character; they don't live long, and have to bring in a wholly new concept.
Of course, I am also the person who allowed one of my best players to reskin the Gungan race as a swamp-dwelling warrior species at war with the local lizardfolk in one of my games. Just because a race can be annoying in play doesn't mean that someone can't breathe enough life into it to make it beauty in motion.
As for tinker gnomes, well... tinker gnomes have become a universal concept in modern fantasy. Look at Spelljammer and Planescape. Heck, look at World of Warcraft! Tinker gnomes are no longer a strange concept that can only be played for comic relief.
... I grant you that gully dwarves, however, are comic relief. They've never shown up in my stories as anything else, and so are expendable as a concept at my table. Still, I don't ban them... who knows, maybe some day a good player will get ahold of the idea and impress me with it.
Personally, while not a big fan of the Chaos War, I loved the War of Souls. It shook up the landscape, introduced new religious conflicts and new moral conflicts, and finally passed the torch from the Heroes of the Lance to the new generation. I thought it was long overdue and tastefully done, whereas the Chaos War seemed rushed and half-planned.
My problem is not the War of Souls, which I think set Krynn up to be a fun, playable setting. It's the books that followed. The Solamnia trilogy looks like it was set somewhere else and they just changed the names to make it Dragonlance. The other books also just kept rewriting basic krynn concepts at will. Instead of moving forward with the sweeping changes of the War of Souls, they introduced more sweeping changes.
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
That sector sells through ten times as many books as the adult one in the same categories within fantasy and sci-fi. If we're appealing to the 10-15 year olds, then bonus.
), are the Foundation Stone of Dragonlance, to the point that all three DL game lines to date have ended their runs (or nearly so) with revisiting the classic storyline. 
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
