4e / GSL Adventurer's Vault - What do you think?

[Fallen Seraph]

Yeah, Irda I think you will like it. I do the same and I am quite enjoying, hell sometimes I go even beyond that. In that the weapon still has the property but it is described not as magical but a shift in the fighting style of the PC and I am quite enjoying AV.

Also, all the other stuff besides just the magic items are quite nice. Only thing I wish there was more off were Firearms at all and more mundane items.

[Nymrohd]

I have to say I quite like AV but there are several items in there I am very tempted to rule 0. Also, too many items that grant penalties to defenses can dangerously overpower a group (that can proceed to unload dailies in short bursts and decimate anything with ease). Especially the two weapon types that force cumulative penalties to AC or Fort on a hit simply have to go.

[Evilhalfling]

I throwing the armor of agility, for the warlord who has made at least 1 death save in 3 out of 4 games and could use a little better defense.

and
staff of force.
but Im making the slide 1 an encounter power instead of a daily. My wizard play is very tactical, and should love this.

[Nebulous]

Originally Posted by TheWinslow

I doubt I'm alone in saying most of my group loves wacky random effects and improvised rulings more than they love a balanced system. Statboosting is boring to me, and while not every item in AV is guilty of this, the majority are. Another healing surge. A reroll. +2 on endurance. Whoop de doo! How about a sword that can cut somebody's arm off? How about a Rod of wonder that might summon an attack t-rex!

You're not alone. This is my precise opinion of the AV. It's not a bad book by any means, and players will undoubtedly like the large selection of stuff, but i find it by and large to a boring large selection of stuff.

I'm already modifying magic from past editions to introduce to our 4e campaign, rather than relying solely on the AV and PHB. I mean, i'll still use the AV, but not exclusively.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Nebulous

It's not a bad book by any means, and players will undoubtedly like the large selection of stuff, but i find it by and large to a boring large selection of stuff. .

This is also my opinion. I browsed through and was ..err..not overwhelmed.

[Windjammer]

Originally Posted by Nebulous

You're not alone. This is my precise opinion of the AV. It's not a bad book by any means, and players will undoubtedly like the large selection of stuff, but i find it by and large to a boring large selection of stuff.

I'm already modifying magic from past editions to introduce to our 4e campaign, rather than relying solely on the AV and PHB. I mean, i'll still use the AV, but not exclusively.

Exactly my sentiments as well. I already inserted two vastly overpowered items from AV into my last session (overpowered meaning way above my PCs' level) but the utterly transparent and beautifully simple mechanics of 4E means I could have come up with a LOT of the item conversions and creations myself. I mean, most of the stuff really does damage of a certain type (one-off or ongoing), boosts a stat or an existing power (basically a power which allows said item as an implement) and/or allows you to regain that power more quickly (say, encounter powers become twice encounter, daily items become twice daily). You get the idea. What's missing most isn't just whacky mechanics - it's flavor text. I was already pissed off big time with the copy+paste used for the Eye and Hand of Vecna in the PHB, not to mention the largely uninspired and uninspiring text that goes with it.

So, for me the biggest boon of AV is its showcasing that it's become much easier for the DM to make up magic items as far as mechanics is concerned. (To repeat: just boost an extant PC power in the ways mentioned above, or let items function like multiclass feats: they grant access to powers otherwise unaccessible to a particular PC.) Since AV is actually mostly mechanics, it is also mostly redundant. Ironic, because that's a result of 4E's strengths.

[thundershot]

My only complaints are a lack of mundane items (we need a Goods & Gear 4E), the lack of detail on some of the cooler items (older books used to tell what each level did for an Apparatus of Kwalish, for example), and lack of some things that I really wanted (Rod of Lordly Might). I hear there's a AV 2 coming out next year. Hopefully it'll have more vehicles, too... Heck, I'd get an entire BOOK of vehicles..



Chris

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Two words: Ornithopter.
Oh, wait, that was only one word. Okay, have a second one: Airship.



Okay, there's more, and this is possibly the less important stuff. But there seems to be a wealth of interesting and useful items. Is there power creep?
I would say that with more items, there is also a bigger chance you find useful combinations. The individual items don't seem to be more powerful, but again, you might find some better synergy between items.

I think where you notice this the strongest are elixiers and potions. They give you more things to do with your daily item use and healing surges. But you always have to give up something for them.
Our group immediately liked those "Graveyard Potions" or how they were called - spend a healing surge (like for every other Potion) and gain resistance 10 to Necrotic (and Poison, I think) damage. I think there are also heroic and epic tier equivalents. That's pretty nice, and can serious weaken or neutralize the threat of ongoing damage and poison. But they still cost money _and_ a healing surge.

[TerraDave]

Originally Posted by TheWinslow

I looked at a friend's copy and decided to invest in Encyclopedia Magica instead. Now I've got 5 versions of the rod of wonder, 2 versions of that 7 parts thingamabob, and more weapons, potions, etc. than I could ever need.

To be honest, it was a little more expensive than AV, but I think I'm going to get a lot more bang for my buck. Plus, now I can introduce the Sword of Sharpness (heretofore unknown to me) into my playgroup.

How did Encyclopedia Magica get in the thread! And never heard of the sword of sharpness...shocking to my grognard ears. You at least knew what a vorpal blade was, right? Snicker-Snack!

I just got the Encyclopedia out of storage, and it remains an all time favorite, in its multi-volume pleather cover glory. It is an incredible font of ideas and archive of D&D lore. Try the quirks!

But, if you are just looking to drop your stuff into your 4E game, AV looks great, at least on the first read. I did wish it had more mundane items, more mounts and vehicles (though I love that it has real chariot rules) and more illustrations.

And was twice as long for the same price, that would have been really good.

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I second the request for more "mundane" items. Be it vehicles or weapons, more would be great. I wouldn't mind some "fantastic" vehicles, either. Maybe an Astral Jammer?


I hope no one minds if I use the Two-Bladed Sword stats as a Bat'Leth? If it had existed before I created my Dragonborn Warlord, he might have gotten that one, even if it would mean losing some of his AC and damage.

[Allister]

After the Tome of Magic, I consider Encyclopedia Magica to be the most core-essential product for AD&D (2e, although both Tome of Magic and it can fit in 1e).

However, I think EM only works for pre-3E D&D. Once players could reliably create magic items (anyone remember what the wand of fire {which in 3E became the staff of fire in 3e} took to create?) I dont think one could use EM in a D&D game...

Way too unbalancing...

[TheWinslow]

Originally Posted by TerraDave

How did Encyclopedia Magica get in the thread! And never heard of the sword of sharpness...shocking to my grognard ears. You at least knew what a vorpal blade was, right? Snicker-Snack!

Of course I know about Vorpal swords! Just because I live in Virginia doesn't mean I'm a philistine.

Originally Posted by TerraDave

I just got the Encyclopedia out of storage, and it remains an all time favorite, in its multi-volume pleather cover glory. It is an incredible font of ideas and archive of D&D lore. Try the quirks!

I totally agree. One of the best parts is the charming inefficiency of their categorization method. For example, there are separate entries for Blade, Sword, and Weapon. It's like you never know what you'll find!

Originally Posted by TerraDave

And was twice as long for the same price, that would have been really good.

Alas, I too was somewhat miffed by the book's smallness. However, the content level is comparable to MIC, so it's not all bad. Then again, I doubt I'll ever need another treasure book again after Enyclopedia Magica.

[Asmor]

Originally Posted by Irda Ranger

As someone who is still deciding whether or not to get AV, can someone opine on whether AV is a good buy even after stripping out all the +x items? I have the house rule that PCs automatically get +1 to attacks, damage and defenses at levels 3, 8, 13, ..., specifically to put "the magic" in magical items, and I wanted to know if AV is still a good buy.

Thanks.

Not counting weapons, implements, armor or neck items, there are 856 magic items in AV (although that number's counting some items multiple times if they appear at multiple levels-- I'd estimate the unique number at somewhere around 500, give or take).

[Derren]

When you want lots of useless items, some ok items and a few overpowered items then you should get the book.

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by Derren

When you want lots of useless items, some ok items and a few overpowered items then you should get the book.

I am completely shocked that you have a less than glowing opinion about anything 4e.

-O

[Derren]

Originally Posted by Obryn

I am completely shocked that you have a less than glowing opinion about anything 4e.

-O

Be honest, do you really think all items (sans the overpowered ones) in the book are equally useful?

I predict that most players will never voluntarily buy/make/use about 50%-60% of the items in the book, especially as they are all priced the same for the level.

[mattdm]

Originally Posted by Derren

I predict that most players will never voluntarily buy/make/use about 50%-60% of the items in the book, especially as they are all priced the same for the level.

So, 40-50% used seems like a pretty good ratio. If I found 40% of any given supplement useful in my game I'd be very pleased.

But as a side comment: you can look at it as "all items of the same level are priced the same", which feels a bit weird. Or you can look at it like this: just as the total number of XP in an encounter tells you the level of that encounter, the price of an item determines what its level is.

Also remember that the normal sale price of any individual item varies between the base price and the price of an item one level up. (That is, 10%-40% more than the given number.)

[Nymrohd]

I would be completely shocked if I opened any D&D product and everything was equally useful. Most likely it would mean everything sucked.

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by Derren

Be honest, do you really think all items (sans the overpowered ones) in the book are equally useful?

I predict that most players will never voluntarily buy/make/use about 50%-60% of the items in the book, especially as they are all priced the same for the level.

Holy cow - that's a heck of a standard. I haven't used 80%+ of magic items in any edition of the game - other than when I was in middle school.

It's a wider variety, and that's it.

-O

[Cincinnatus]

I like Adventurer's Vault, but I have to add my voice to the many that have lamented the relative lack of mundane weapons and equipment. The cynic in me would say that this was deliberate in order to sell another book (perhaps Arms & Equipment Guide 4E?)