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In researching, making, and playing a tactical warlord last week, I'm starting to think that a taclord really needs to start with an 18 INT. This is because of the Tactical Presence class feature.
While a 16 or 17 INT provides an acceptable +3 ability modifier, when halved it becomes only a +1 for Tactical Presence. The only way to start with a +2 Tac Pres is with an 18 INT.
Over the course of 30 levels, a character that starts with 16 INT starts with +1 to tac pres, gets +2 at 8th level, and it tops out at +3 at 21st level.
One that starts with a 17 INT starts with a +1, gets +2 at 4th level and it tops out at +3 at 18th level.
But the one that starts with an 18 INT starts with a +2 tac pres, which increases to +3 at 14th level and tops out at +4 at 28th level.
Reviewing that, I think I may prefer starting with a 17 INT as I would earn the first of only two increases at just 4th level.
While a 17 or 18 INT isn't a stretch if playing a Human, Eladrin, Genasi, or Tiefling, what about the races without the INT bonus? Normally I don't find it worth it to buy an ability above 16. But given how the tactical presence bonus is calculated, do you think it is worth it to buy a 17 or 18 INT for, say, a dwarf tactical warlord?
Or maybe I'm scoring tactical presence too high? Investing too heavily in INT in an effort to supercharge one ability that only affects each other party member just once every other combat, assuming they choose to use their action point for an attack? And if that's the case, maybe tac pres alone doesn't justify an 18 INT even for the races that give it a bonus...
Since you're probably going to be walking around in dorky Hide Armor, the Intelligence will also add to your AC. IME, I'd grab the 18 INT for a Taclord.
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16 STR, 18 INT has been working pretty well for my character so far.
However, this game is planned to stop before Epic levels, so qualifying for weapon mastery isn't an issue.
I don't think it'd be worth it to start above 16 INT as a race without an INT bonus. A warlord is still a melee character and thus needs STR, along with stats for weapon feats, CON for HP and surges (my warlord doesn't have CON, and is usually the weakest link on surges even with Durable). It's just too much of a sacrifice in terms of other stats. INT really helps with secondary effects on your powers and presence, but you still need some STR to hit in the first place.
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In my experience: 18 Int and at least 16 Str at first level or you're wasting your time.
-blarg
or play Genasi and have 18 in Int AND Str.
Stat-dumps FTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runestar
The genasi gives +2str/int, IIRC, so it shouldn't be too difficult to manage a warlord with 18 in both str and int.
Yeah, well...so you beat me to it.
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I play a tactical warlord tiefling, and he is getting pretty imba.
It is not the usual build for warlord since my STR is low, but this build has other purposes then dealing damage or even hitting.
I started out with 14 STR 17 INT and 13 CHA that turns out to be 19 INT and 15 CHA because of the tiefling stuffs.
So at level 4 it turns to be 20 INT(+5) and 16 CHA(+3).
I wear a Tactician's chainmail: "When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value other than your attack bonus, add 1 to that value. This does not change your Intelligence modifier for any other purpose."
So my int modifier turns to be +6 most of the time (halved +3)
Some might say: but you'll have problems to hit with your low STR.
the answer is: I don't need to hit. My main attack is commander's strike, with wich I can choose any ally that actually has a good to-hit to make a basic melee with +6 damage!! at-will
For the encounter's, look for attack against reflex (like hammer and anvil power) or fortitude and try using a longsword or something with high proficiency.
And always look for powers that calls on your int modifier. Like the adaptative stratagem would give your ally +6 bonus to damage roll, minor action, untill the end of your next turn.
This can be applied at least 3 times (2 commander's strikes and his own turn) to a most of 5 times using actions points. That means (if your ally has a good to-hit) a minor action encounter power that deal's 30 bonus damage and you can add you tactical assault damage to that too. Way better than most daily at 3[w] using long swords.
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I don't think its worth the 18. You have to pay too much for it.
Giving allies an additional +1 to attack (or even +2 in comparison to a 14 starting stat) on a few attacks every fight is probably not worth losing +1 to your own attacks.
And yes, I know about Commander's Strike, and I do believe that its possible to get through a number of the lower levels as a warlord without making more than a handful of attack rolls. But at paragon tier you'll be running around with 4 encounter powers, and 3 daily powers. Some of those powers will be really strong, and will only work if you hit. Plus of course your attacks deal damage too.
So I wouldn't go too nuts about Int. Just invest what you can.
The genasi gives +2str/int, IIRC, so it shouldn't be too difficult to manage a warlord with 18 in both str and int.
Of course, then you have to play a guy with crystals sticking out of his head.
An alternative approach is to play a tiefling, take Hellfire Blood, and wield a flame weapon. You start with a 16 Strength, but Hellfire Blood makes up the deficiency.
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If you're an Eladrin, you can afford to not start with an 18 Int. There's a Paragon Parth in Martial Power that makes the tatical presence bonus your Total Int Mod (instead of half).
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I don't think its worth the 18. You have to pay too much for it.
Giving allies an additional +1 to attack (or even +2 in comparison to a 14 starting stat) on a few attacks every fight is probably not worth losing +1 to your own attacks.
And yes, I know about Commander's Strike, and I do believe that its possible to get through a number of the lower levels as a warlord without making more than a handful of attack rolls. But at paragon tier you'll be running around with 4 encounter powers, and 3 daily powers. Some of those powers will be really strong, and will only work if you hit. Plus of course your attacks deal damage too.
So I wouldn't go too nuts about Int. Just invest what you can.
We allowed out Taclord to retcon a higher strength, and he immediately became a much more capable PC. After that we've had entire sessions that were defined by the Taclord's success. If you hit every Warlord's Favor and Lead the Attack it dramatically changes the day. I think he put at 15 in INT, added the eladrin bonus, and bumped it to 18 at 4th level.
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If you're an Eladrin, you can afford to not start with an 18 Int. There's a Paragon Parth in Martial Power that makes the tatical presence bonus your Total Int Mod (instead of half).
Which is ironic, because eladrins have a much easier time getting to 18 Int given their racial bonus.
(And the prospect of getting the full int mod for tac presence is scary... Action Surge looks sorta pathetic by comparison.)
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If you're human, 16 Str and 18 Int is my preferred combo for Taclords. 16 Str and a +3 weapon is good enough to land your gamebreakers (Lead the Attack, Warlord's Favor) and the +4 bonus to damage to your biggest basic melee swinger is great as well when you fall back to your at-will of choice, Commander's Strike.
Of course, Genasi with their 18/18 are great as well.
I think he put at 15 in INT, added the eladrin bonus, and bumped it to 18 at 4th level.
It was 16, 18 with bonus, bumped to 19 at 4th.
I'd say go 16 Str, 18 Int to start if you can and get a +3 weapon. Int grants bonuses and riders, but it's all for naught if you miss. I don't believe there are any reliable warlord powers, and precious few have a miss effect worth mentioning.
A good Int bonus also helps with certain feats, such as Tactical Assault, and if eladrin, Tactical Inspiration.
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