General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
__________________ "If people bring so much courage to this world the world has to kill them to break them, so of course it kills them. The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry."
-- Ernest Hemingway, "A Farewell to Arms" Burning Empires:Boldaq Keep on the Shadowfell
We were aided immensely by Toiva’s challenge, which meant that with every tail-slap against a different target, lizard-king was taking additional damage. Logan also gave us all a round of Combat Advantage against him with Dazing Strike. Strontium polished him off with a last magic missile.
Umm, I'm pretty sure the damage from a paladin's challenge is only supposed to occur once. The mark stays in place, but after the first round of it, it only applies the -2 penalty, not the damage.
Umm, I'm pretty sure the damage from a paladin's challenge is only supposed to occur once. The mark stays in place, but after the first round of it, it only applies the -2 penalty, not the damage.
The damage applies the first time he makes an attack before the start of your next turn... as long as he's marked.
If he's still marked next round, then "your next turn" is another round away.
If he's still marked the round after that, then "your next turn" is another round away.
He can only take the damage once per round, but he can take it in multiple rounds.
He can only take the damage once per round, but he can take it in multiple rounds.
-Hyp.
Which is what happened. Those jerks! That 7 points per hit can add up. I didn't expect Sarothic to get involved in the fight this early, but he is a lizardman of great strength and intimidation but very little patience. He really didn't expect to do anything other than kill, brutally and single-handedly, everyone in the tower.
Guess he should have given that more thought. Our heroes put out a lot of damage.
To get Sarothic's stats: take a lizardman blackscale bruiser (lvl 6.) Make him elite (double his hit points to 172, etc.), lower his AC down to 16 because he's not well armored, and give him a second action point because he's feeling feisty. (He couldn't actually attack twice a round per se, he was just using his APs.) One of the things I love about 4e is that I could do all this on the fly, in my head. I was worried he'd be too tough for them. Not so much, mostly due to good tactics that kept him off-balance.
The exploding barrels: These suckers were meant to burn down the town of Floodford, and Sarothic paid good money for them! They use the limited damage expression, so each exploding barrel does 3d8+3 damage to everyone in a burst 5. Watching all three go up at once was a thing of beauty.
Stron: Fiery burst is so, so good against minions. Swoon.
The little lizards: kobold minions who have swampwalk. They look a little bit like baby raptors, only somewhat more humanoid.
The hooded spokeslizard: The person talking to the PCs, so far unseen, may have been the one person riding in a boat instead of moving through the swamp. He somehow knew to call Cobalt by name. Can he read minds, or is it someone who knows Cobalt from Floodford? He's certainly very well spoken.
So, next game! A mysterious leader? Half a (demoralized) army of lizardmen, along with a few giant frogs? An urbane spokeslizard? A wargod in the flooded basement? Stay tuned!
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
Arg! I hate these little cliff hangers. The writers of these shows must be rodents of questionable parentage to keep tomentig us with cliff hangers!
Great campaign so far folks. Sounds like you're all having a blast with the new rules and with the story.
PC, I've always wanted to ask. How much prep work do you do for each game night? I know it must vary, but an idea would help. And has the change to 4e vs. 3e helped with those times?
I'm currently running the Rise of the Runelords pathfinder series so I can have some more free time. I was running a high level Arcana Unearthed session and simply found that I spending far to much, of my very little free, time prepping for each new session. So I'm curious if I was just overthinking things, or was I in the right ballpark with my prep.
-Ashrum
__________________ ENWorld forums are the points of light amidst darkness.
-blarg
This game took me half an hour to prep, all while I was walking my dogs. Because my plot-noodling happens in my off time (in the shower, while falling asleep, dog walking, etc.) so far my biggest time commitment has been in sorting through the PHB and Adventurer's Vault in search of fun loot. Selecting monsters was easy and took about 2 minutes, max.
This is a huge change from the Defenders game. 3.5 baddies were more complex, and the party was epic level. That translated to a more onerous time commitment for prepping games.
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
This game took me half an hour to prep, all while I was walking my dogs. Because my plot-noodling happens in my off time (in the shower, while falling asleep, dog walking, etc.) so far my biggest time commitment has been in sorting through the PHB and Adventurer's Vault in search of fun loot. Selecting monsters was easy and took about 2 minutes, max.
This is a huge change from the Defenders game. 3.5 baddies were more complex, and the party was epic level. That translated to a more onerous time commitment for prepping games.
Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
I promised myself we'd finish our 3.5 "Rise of the Runelords" game before I start my 4e campaign. I promised myself we'd finish our 3.5 "Rise of the Runelords" game before I start my 4e campaign. I promised myself we'd finish our 3.5 "Rise of the Runelords" game before I start my 4e campaign.
I can be strong. I can DO this.
__________________ "I'd say it's more appropriate to say that videogames are RPG-ish, wouldn't you?"
or our older WizarDru's Story Hour? You Should.
I ain't linking to Piratecat's story hour...no sir, I just won't do it. He can just get the next half-million reads on his own.
Did I mention that I have a Livejournal? It's possible that I have.
2. I see now from reviewing last session that we had a bound prisoner in the tower with us. Both DM and players forgot about him, too. I guess he hasn’t managed to escape!
Really? I could have sworn we killed him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagiro
Finally, Toiva confessed her secret to us, by briefly changing her appearance to look like a lizardman, and then back again. Whoa, she’s a Doppelganger! But there was no time to gawk and babble much about that – the mob was in range!
Toiva revealed herself in hopes that folks smarter than she (or in this case me) could come up with a way to use that to our advantage. I only hope that turning into a lizardman in the midst of battle helped confuse them somewhat.
Sagiro forgot to mention that just before Sarothic entered, a bunch of lizardmen minions flooded in. However, since each one tried to push past us in the doorway to make room for more of them, Logan got an Attack of Opportunity (yes, I am aware that WOTC has tried to rename them) on each one. I don't think any of them made it past the door.
Aravis
__________________ -- In every adversity lies the seed of equivalent benefit.
I thought so, too. If not, he has since died of ennui.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagiro
Some spokeslizard then tried to parlay with us, offering us clearly-bogus promises of safety if we’d abdicate the tower.
Interestingly, at the time the offer was mostly sincere. One harms the Grey Guard at their peril, and he wanted those weapons more than he wanted you dead. They could have let you go, gotten their weapons, and been attacking Floodford hours before you managed to slog your way back through the swamp at night.
That changed after Toiva (played by Aravis) called him a flunky. Even spokeslizards have feelings too, you know. Words hurt. Sniff.
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
That changed after Toiva (played by Aravis) called him a flunky. Even spokeslizards have feelings too, you know. Words hurt. Sniff.
Awwww...That was, after all, her intent. Our biggest fear was that they would try to siege us. We knew we could not last a prolonged siege.
I realized later that we missed the opportunity for a skill challenge there. I should have been using my diplomacy skill to conduct those, er, um, reverse negotiations.
Aravis
__________________ -- In every adversity lies the seed of equivalent benefit.
This thread continues to have me counting the days until I can start my own 4e campaign. Great stuff!
What I particularly love is seeing how durable (even without a healer per se) the PC's are in the face of relentless wave after wave of bad guys. Since that's kinda the way I roll as a GM then I'm pleased to see how well this style is supported by 4e.
Sounds awesome. We're playing a (significantly larger) siege situation imc right now, and it's been awesome fun for the pcs (defending a city) as they get to kill tons and tons of enemy minions for every time their forces even take damage!
Of course, much like your situation here, there are a lot of bad guys...
Good luck to the party; I suspect that your ensuing "negotiations" will prove most interesting.
Sagiro's note on Acid Arrow raises my question to y'all. The description says this spell does ancillary damage to all creatures adjacent to the target? But when the target is large, or has an unexposed side, that becomes kind of ridiculous. If I'm fighting a dragon, and all my allies are around it, the acid still does splash damage, even if the creature is 30' long? That seems slightly broken. It is an "arrow" of acid, not a ball or globe. It's a missile, not a burst.
In the same tactical position, I was able to use a burst spell without hitting any allies, but couldn't use a non-burst spell. Sounds broken to me. Flavor text is winning over tactics.
Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I'm trying to get PC to house-rule this. With a party full of flankers, I may never get the chance to use this!
Can you pick Phantom Chasm from Dragon 364? It's a burst 1 that can leave its targets prone - perfect for your rogue buddies.
__________________ "If people bring so much courage to this world the world has to kill them to break them, so of course it kills them. The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry."
-- Ernest Hemingway, "A Farewell to Arms" Burning Empires:Boldaq Keep on the Shadowfell
Sagiro's note on Acid Arrow raises my question to y'all. The description says this spell does ancillary damage to all creatures adjacent to the target? But when the target is large, or has an unexposed side, that becomes kind of ridiculous. If I'm fighting a dragon, and all my allies are around it, the acid still does splash damage, even if the creature is 30' long? That seems slightly broken. It is an "arrow" of acid, not a ball or globe. It's a missile, not a burst.
In the same tactical position, I was able to use a burst spell without hitting any allies, but couldn't use a non-burst spell. Sounds broken to me. Flavor text is winning over tactics.
Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I'm trying to get PC to house-rule this. With a party full of flankers, I may never get the chance to use this!
You should be sure and bat your eyelashes at him. That would work on me. But then again maybe he's spent the last 20 years building up an immunity to iocaine powder your considerable charm.
I think you're reading it correctly from a strict rules standpoint. But this is one of those "believability vs. rules" things that I'd just handwave as a GM. I might say that the area is effectively a Burst 1 so that you'd still get some splash on a large creature but you could target whatever square you like (including the center) of a creature that has a 3x3 base or larger.
Through the power of magic, when you cast acid arrow on a Large target, you create a Large acid arrow that is 2x2 squares. That's why it still splashes your friends who are flanking the Large target.
*blink*
Okay, that does sound kind of silly.
__________________ Still excited about 4th edition!
'If there steady paycheck in it, Krusk rage against anything you say.' - this post
You get the same problem with any power that references "adjacent enemies" (eg Force Orb). I think the most reasonable interpretation is the one Rel put forth; all powers/effects that say "adjacent enemies" are actually Burst 1, with the caveat that they don't affect the target square.
- This game showed us the awesome power of the wizard to clear out minions.
This was the game that showed me the awesome mechanic that is minions. As Sagiro notes, we took advantage both of wizard spells as well as any tactical advantages we could get out of the terrain; that's part of why we had such a high kill count. Still, in 3.5, a horde of 50 foes would simply have overwhelmed us. To make this a fair fight, PCat would have had to send a smaller group of tougher enemies, and that would have changed the feel of the fight considerably.
Sounds like a fun time! Was the exploding barrels a "Yeah! High five!" moment or was it an "Oh S@#!@" type moment? It seems like the Grey Guard still holds some 'oomph' in the area. I'm sure that will come up in the negotiations . . .
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