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Awesome write-up as usual. I can totally hear Piratecat doing the "cultured woman's voice".
This is a really good example of something that it's difficult for a GM to do: Put in some powerful combatants on both sides of a fight without the PC's feeling marginalized by the BBGG doing the "heavy lifting". In this case you sent the War God after the demons but it didn't get rid of them. It fought off stage (and lost) to even nastier stuff while the PC's had to deal with its original targets. That is tricky and kudos for pulling it off.
I think what really tipped the scales (no pun intended) in our parley with Cultured Broad was just after she threw down the War God's head. She asked how many of us were dead. We all replied "none" together, followed by variations on "not even hurt", "feeling fine" in an upbeat (and honest) manner. That really threw her. She thought we were bluffing.
She wasn't to know we were fine, but out of potions and healing surges. "Fine" in that scenario was a less renewable position than it had been before.
I had originally expected a momentous battle with one PC fighting against the hordes and using the shield guardian as a hit point reserve. The actual result may have been more satisfying.
For the record, the cultured woman introduced herself as "Aline, consort of Xiras." Xiras is known to be a dragonborn adventurer exiled from Floodford several years ago after he ended up being the sole survivor of three different adventuring parties. Did he kill them himself, or betray them? No one could ever prove anything, but Xiras was informed that his welcome had expired.
And you'll notice what I'm doing here, following the old adventure design theory of "narrow - wide - narrow." The dog-gobblers adventure was fairly linear. This was less so. And now the PCs have a number of different directions to go in. Follow up on the maker's mark from all the weapons? Investigate Xiras? Figure out how the well-spoken lizardman translator knew Cobalt? These and more. I'll flowchart them out, with a couple of key points. Then once they pick one, I'll expand it.
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
Hehe, I do something similar when DMing. My method is more "spider-web" like, initially lots and lots of paths to take (so the strings on the web), and when they go down one path. That narrows down to a single point (where the strings meet), then flares out again.
I really like using that visualization, since well I can actually visualize it. I use bring scraps of paper to map out possible routes they may go, where it could lead, what would branch off, etc. By having it written out too I find it saves work with future ideas since can take a path/plot hook not taken and use it elsewhere.
I run my games like a mystery plot lots of the time. So I use separate colours for "main plot" strings and points. So, if their on a non-plot string, and reach a plot point. Well they get to unravel part of the plot, whether they choose to follow the plot string from then onward. Up to their own choices.
It is time consuming at times to draw it all out. But good heavens does it ever cut down on headaches with being a DM.
__________________ Secret Member of... *blink, blink* Damn you amnesia!
- Logan’s player pointed out something after the game: there are some rogue powers with “save ends” effects that would be better if they were just “until the end of your next turn.”
Not just rogue powers -- there are quite a few like that. It's bad design.
A fix I have been contemplating would look something like this:
Hit: blah blah blah and impose this status effect (save ends). ...Aftereffect: same status effect (save ends). Miss: impose this status effect until the end of your next turn.
Now, on a hit, you are guaranteed at least the same duration* of debuffing as if you had missed -- if the monster makes its first save, the aftereffect kicks in, and it is still debuffed for at least one more round.
If you miss, the monster is debuffed for one round as usual.
* Actually, slightly more. Suppose the initiative order is as follows:
15 the PC
10 the monster
5 someone else
On 15, the PC attacks the monster with the power. On a miss, the monster will be debuffed until 15 on the next round.
On a hit, the monster will definitely be debuffed on its turn at 10, will still be debuffed next round at 15, and will continue to be debuffed on its turn at 10 in the next round. Then, depending on its save, the debuff may or may not continue.
A fix I have been contemplating would look something like this:
Hit: blah blah blah and impose this status effect (save ends). ...Aftereffect: same status effect (save ends). Miss: impose this status effect until the end of your next turn.
It seems to me that is overcompensating, as you are making those powers require two saves on a hit. Wouldn't it be better to have the aftereffect go until the end of your next turn
That way you still get a minimum of one round of benefit from the power, but a second save is not required.
--Aravis
__________________ -- In every adversity lies the seed of equivalent benefit.
It seems to me that is overcompensating, as you are making those powers require two saves on a hit. Wouldn't it be better to have the aftereffect go until the end of your next turn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storminator
It's not necessarily a bad design. It trades one round of certainty for a riskier possibility of higher payoff.
I guess it depends on the original power.
If it was one of those powers that simply said, "Hit: impose a status effect (save ends)", then I'm inclined to agree with Storminator.
However, if it was one of those powers that originally read, "Hit: impose a status effect (save ends); Miss: impose a status effect until the end of your next turn", then the power really needs some kind of fix in place so that hitting isn't worse than missing 55% of the time.
So, either an Aftereffect with (save ends) or an Aftereffect until the end of your next turn would work.
(Note: I've dashed this off in a hurry. Apologies in advance for typos and sloppy writing.)
We played again on Thursday – our 8th session of the campaign – and managed to get into a lot more trouble than I think any of us expected. I'm not quite sure why no one has died yet -- especially Strontium. (Though, while things are better than they were at their low point, we're not out of the woods yet... there's plenty of opportunity for extreme pain next game, most likely inflicted with an axe.)
But I digress.
Commander Pikeline gave us a few hours of R&R. Because one of the lizard-army higher-ups out in the swamp had recognized Cobalt, Pikeline thought that suggested the enemy had a man on the inside in Floodford. She suggested that we stroll around the town and collect information. Logan (his player being absent for the game) was sent with the other Grey Guard contingent to guard the armory (where most of our captured weapons had been taken). The unpopular tiefling, warlord Caducity Skirr, was sent with us in his place.
Before we set out, Cobalt had another tiff with the obnoxious Runcible Parsons, who constantly goads the short-fused Cobalt by insulting his mother. As usual, Cobalt played the part of Clumsy Buffoon, while Runcible smoothly disabled him and knocked him prone.
(On the one hand, Runcible is a provocative jerk, who's also jealous of our party's recent success. On the other hand, Cobalt just naturally *likes* everyone and wants to be friends with them. So he has this weird conflicted relationship with the guy, where he tries hard to be friendly, and also can't help (trying to) punch him in the face every time Runcible insults him. It's even got the other PC's mad at me, since they stick up for me, and then I turn around and try to reconcile with the little bugger. Eventually, either Cobalt's relentlessly good nature will change Runcible's bad attitude, or Cobalt will decide he's incorrigible and give up on him. I'm pretty sure my party-mates would prefer the latter...)
But I digress again.
We headed into town, first stopping at a local blacksmith. He didn’t recognize the maker’s mark we had seen on the lizards’ stockpiled weapons, but he suggested we ask a local weapons importer currently out of town, negotiating some kind of deal with a noble from Skadderlin. The blacksmith also promised to make some inquiries on our behalf.
Moving on, we discovered a large crowd of armed teamsters and dockworkers, ostensibly preparing to defend the town against possible imminent invasion, getting drunk in a large tavern. Not good. Worse, the ale was being freely distributed by the mayor’s own secretary, a large Dragonborn. This obviously made us very suspicious, especially since his voice sounded a bit like the one we had heard out in the swamp. We made an excuse to leave, and waited outside until the crowd dispersed. A preponderance of the semi-drunken mob headed for the northern guard post, which made us think that perhaps the attack was planned for that area. (“Strike where the guards are sloshed!”) The mayor’s secretary was also leaving, and we swore he grinned slyly at us as he departed. Traitor!
We decided to report back to Commander Pikeline, which took a while since she had left the Guard Tower, and we had to track her down in the streets. When we shared our suspicions with her, she ordered us immediately to the Armory to the south, thinking that the mob of drunken militiamen was actually a distraction from the intended incursion point. We headed that way, and en route heard the sound of a muffled bell coming from the armory – as if someone had tried to ring it but was quickly prevented from continuing.
We dashed to the armory, which is on a small island. The drawbridge was drawn up, so there was no obvious way in. Toiva, peering through the arrow slits, was pretty sure the dark figures inside weren’t human. Damn! Somehow the lizards had gotten inside the armory, with all the weapons we had just stolen from them! Cobalt decided he’d swim the moat, climb the tower, and find a way to sneak inside to lower the drawbridge.
Strontium, who doesn’t need to breath, jumped into the water, intending to circle around to the other side of the tower and serve as a fire-blasting distraction. And that’s where the plan really started to go wrong, as he discovered two lizard men standing guard under water (!?). They nearly killed him in a single round of surprise attacks. He returned fire (literally), and the underwater glow tipped off the rest of the party that something was amiss. Caducity Skirr’s quick thinking saved our wizard, as she jumped in after him to restore some of his vitality. (“Pull yourself together!”) Cobalt and Doc Caldwell jumped in to fight as well – eventually one lizard was killed and the other fled into the dark water, toward the tower. Cobalt and the Doc had to surface for air, where they discovered that Toiva had fished out a rope-with-grappling hook and thrown the hook onto the tower roof. Toiva, Cobalt and Caldwell used it to reach the roof, not realizing that Strontium and Caducity had opted to pursue the underwater lizard.
Yes, we split the party, without even really trying. D’oh!
On the tower roof, we found a little lizard who’s job it was to guard the bell. For a few frustrating rounds Toiva couldn’t manage to shake the damned little beast loose, as it clung obstinately to the clapper to prevent the bell from sounding. After Cobalt and Caldwell joined him, the lizard was soon overpowered.
But no sooner had we started ringing the bell when more lizards popped their heads up out of a trap door in the roof. Caldwell, who speaks Draconic, heard one of them hiss down: “They’ve found us! Get everyone downstairs and let’s get out of here!”
Quick cut to the water: Strontium and Caducity discovered a water gate, wrenched free and smashed. They headed through themselves and ended up in the tower basement, facing down a huge two-headed lizard-man with an enormous axe. Strontium managed to at least slow it with Sleep, after which Caducity yelled to him: “Now! Go around him!” Stron did so, dashing into the next room, but as he did, the slowed monster took a couple of steps toward Skirr and dropped her with a single massive axe-blow.
Strontium emerged into a larger room (closing the door behind him) filled with hastily piled weapons and a bunch of lizard men trying to enclose them with a long piece of magical-looking rope. He managed to stall them for a couple of rounds through clever use of Mage Hand, combined with some fiery blasts. Then she caught a glimpse of something hurtling down from above...
Cut back to the roof: Toiva dropped down through the trap door and found himself completely surrounded with lizards, whose attacks were mostly foiled by his armor. He tried to bull rush one of them, but succeeded only in flinging himself inelegantly off a ledge to the lower level. It looked like he was ticketed for a painful landing, but Strontium saw his plummet and reacted instantly with Feather Fall.
That left Caldwell and Cobalt on the roof. Caducity Skirr them made a surprise appearance; she had not actually been killed, but instead had escaped back through the water gate, and then had climbed the rope to the roof. Doc fired his bow (aided by Skirr) taking out one of the minions, and Cobalt them jumped down into their midst. He let loose a Blinding Barrage (using his new magical dagger) that slew all remaining seven! With the way cleared, both he and the Doc managed some deft acrobatic leaps to get down to the others with minimum damage.
Below, the combat continued. Having now spent more than a round in that lower area, Strontium noticed the bodies of many Gray Guardsmen (including Logan and Runcible) lying unconscious or dead. And Caldwell recognized a faint alchemical smell – he suspected knock-out gas of some kind. But there was no time to dwell on that, as the lizards were trying to finish circling the rope around the weapons, presumably to finish off a teleportation ritual.
The session ended with most of the lizards slain, and Cobalt holding one end of the rope. There is still one large non-minion lizard remaining, AND the huge two-headed lizard with the axe, along with a small number of minions. And though we're all (miraculously) still alive, some of us are badly damaged, Toiva has used up her Lay on Hands for the day, and we’re out many of our better powers and second winds. We’ll find out who survives next time!
Tactical Notes:
- First off, since this game was heavier on role-playing and lighter on combat than most recent runs, this section will be fairly short.
- Holy crap, was our dice-rolling sucktastic for most of this session. (And Piratecat, for a while, couldn't roll a single-digit number for his bad guys. Our luck started to turn a bit at the end, but sheesh.)
- We pulled off some Acrobatic Stunts™, which was fun – specifically, our jumping down to the lower-level of the armory, mentioned above. I want to do more of that!
- Sure is nice having a Warlord around! She saved Strontium’s bacon with Aid the Injured, that’s for sure.
- Blinding Barrage really paid for itself in this run. 7 minions popped in a single round! To be fair, my dice made up for all their previous suckitude in that one six-second span, as all 7 rolls were in double digits. (chance of doing that on a given set of seven rolls: 1.5%)
- Skills used this game: Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Nature, Perception, Stealth, Streetwise
- Almost all of the enemies were (I think) the same lizardy types as in the previous couple of runs – Greenscale Hunters mixed with repurposed kobold minions. I don’t know what the two remaining lizards are (the large one, and the larger two-headed one). Perhaps Piratecat will let us know, after we’re done fighting them.
- This run would have definitely benefitted from me having drawn out the armory in great detail ahead-of-time. Trying to sketch three levels at a time (yay, split party!) in limited space was awkward.
- I hadn't necessarily expected this to be one huge, long-running encounter. I expected a little down-time after the whole party entered through the watergate and killed the 2-headed lizardman. That clearly didn't happen. It will be interesting to see the response.
- Stron missed his attack with sleep, meaning the 2-headed foe was slowed until it made its save. I rolled below 10 on something like 4 or 5 consecutive rounds. Annoying for the bad guys, although it'll be a fun fight next game.
- I missed an opportunity here. Toiva had asked if there was any way to open the drawbridge from outside, and I said no - after all, it was made to avoid exactly this sort of thing. But I'm ascribing to Rel's "spend an action point and your daily, and get to do something cool" house rule. This would have been a perfect opportunity for it.
- Having Logan's player miss a session made it far more difficult for Sagiro to set up sneak attacks. There is synergy there; two rogues working together are greater than two rogues working apart.
- I freakin' love minions. It's great fun having a tower full of intelligent lizards that can still be a threat, but not having combat bog down during the melee. They aren't always appropriate, but they worked really well this game.
- Any foe that hadn't yet been inside the armory (the two lizardmen in the water) were only doing a d4 damage instead of the normal d8. Crappy improvised swamp weapons are no replacement for good steel.
- Obviously, the teleportation rope isn't in the official rules. It's the result of a ritual that makes a teleportation device that goes a short distance to a specific spot. There are a few other details, but I won't share them at this point. One conclusion: the PCs suspect that the attacks may be organized by a rogue dragonborn warrior named Xiras. If that's true, he picked up a ritualist somewhere along the line as well.
__________________ - Piratecat, EN World Admin
Currently editing the 4e War of the Burning Sky adventure path. Support EN Publishing, get excellent modules!
- I missed an opportunity here. Toiva had asked if there was any way to open the drawbridge from outside, and I said no - after all, it was made to avoid exactly this sort of thing. But I'm ascribing to Rel's "spend an action point and your daily, and get to do something cool" house rule. This would have been a perfect opportunity for it.
Just FYI, I've modified that rule since first coming up with it. My experience in the playtest game was that having both an Action Point and an unspent Daily Power in the same place at the same time was happening too rarely for this to see much use. I'd rather see a few too many than way too few such creative, fun stunts in my games so I scaled it back so that it costs an Action Point + Healing Surge to do it.
I note that the Action Point thus spent doesn't result in an extra action. It just lets you do something that you couldn't normally do with your powers but that fits your character concept. I believe you've been reading my own similar thread regarding how my house rules have worked in play but if others are interested then they can find it here: Running Commentary on Rel's 4e Campaign
Eventually, either Cobalt's relentlessly good nature will change Runcible's bad attitude, or Cobalt will decide he's incorrigible and give up on him. I'm pretty sure my party-mates would prefer the latter...)
You forget the third possibility. Toiva catches Runcible in a dark ally (not really looking herself mind you) and beats the crap out of him.
--Aravis
__________________ -- In every adversity lies the seed of equivalent benefit.
We dashed to the armory, which is on a small island. The drawbridge was drawn up, so there was no obvious way in. Toiva, peering through the arrow slits, was pretty sure the dark figures inside weren’t human.
A minor correction here: It was Dr Caldwell who saw the figures and decided they were not human. Toiva's perception is such that she is typically lucky to notice her boots are untied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagiro
Yes, we split the party, without even really trying. D’oh!
Eh. You say we split the party. I say we expertly executed a pincer maneuver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagiro
Cut back to the roof: Toiva dropped down through the trap door and found himself completely surrounded with lizards, whose attacks were mostly foiled by his armor. He tried to bull rush one of them, but succeeded only in flinging himself inelegantly off a ledge to the lower level.
Actually, after the bull rush failed I quickly read up on the jump rules (yes, I know this character is not Galthia). I realized that since these lizards were pretty short on a good roll of the dice (like 15+ or something) I could clear one of them with a standing broad jump. I probably should have actually caught my foot on the lizard and fallen, as I think I could not quite have gotten the height. But I rolled a twenty...Anyway, I then threw myself down the air shaft as the quickest way to make it down 3 flights.
The really funny thing is that we were about to determine how much damage I would take when PCat asked Strontium, "You see Toiva start to fall, what do you do?" He cast Featherfall.
What was especially funny about this is that a few minutes earlier Stron's player realized she could not find where she had written which of her two utilities she had prepped. She was hoping it was shield. Not being able to find it, she rolled and instead ended up with Featherfall. A totally useless spell in this situation, she thought...
--Aravis
__________________ -- In every adversity lies the seed of equivalent benefit.
Eh. You say we split the party. I say we expertly executed a pincer maneuver.
The victors are the ones who write history.
Quote:
What was especially funny about this is that a few minutes earlier Stron's player realized she could not find where she had written which of her two utilities she had prepped. She was hoping it was shield. Not being able to find it, she rolled and instead ended up with Featherfall. A totally useless spell in this situation, she thought...
--Aravis
Yeah for example, Strontium will want to write, "Seeing the tower in the distance, I knew Featherfall might come in handy..."
Toiva dropped down through the trap door and found himself completely surrounded with lizards, whose attacks were mostly foiled by his armor. He tried to bull rush one of them, but succeeded only in flinging himself inelegantly off a ledge to the lower level. It looked like he was ticketed for a painful landing, but Strontium saw his plummet and reacted instantly with Feather Fall.
In case any of you are getting confused by the pronouns: Toiva is a female character with a male player. (And Strontium is a male character with a female player.) So if we say "he" when referring to Toiva, we mean the player -- or perhaps we just slipped, which happens a lot.
In case any of you are getting confused by the pronouns: Toiva is a female character with a male player. (And Strontium is a male character with a female player.) So if we say "he" when referring to Toiva, we mean the player -- or perhaps we just slipped, which happens a lot.
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