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It's a helmet. A poorly drawn helmet on a poorly drawn warrior, but a helmet nonetheless.
That's what is is (/was meant to be). But I can see it.
BTW, this was my favorite non-Jeff Dee pic from B/X
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
meh It's a headdress that was very common in sorceresses drawings at the time.
Look, a Tiefling!
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
If they had horns like that, they wouldn't need to be mocked mercilessly. Those are small horns, respectable horns, small and brittle and more for style than for breaking your neck when you sneeze.
And no giant crocodile tail!
Though I will say the art is worse, I will also say the look is better.
Did you know I can legally have you destroyed for speaking ill of classic Willingham art?!
Yipes! Appreciation of art styles is certainly subjective and I know lots of folks dig that older art. But not me, it's just too amateurish for me (which is okay considering D&D was a young game at that point). The fact that we confused over whether the woman in question has horns or is wearing a helmet with horns doesn't speak volumes for the artist's technical skill at the time.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
Honestly, I like the vagueness of the horns and the what-the-hell-is-that-superhero. I like being forced to decide whether its a helmet or her head that they sprout from. I think it's cool that someone else might have a different idea about the picture than I do. Art doesn't have to hand explain every aspect of itself.
I probably like early Willingham art better than his later stuff because it's all tied up with good memories and nostalgia.
__________________ Life is a shipwreck,
but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.
-Voltaire
Yes indeed. All Mentzer artwork is by Larry Elmore. The picture displayed is by Bill Willingham.
Ahh, crap. And I have the freaking book IN FRONT OF ME! Never post while sleepy.
MOLDVAY, not Mentzer. MOLDVAY. Dammit. Must flagellate myself now.
Psion, I see what you're saying, but, when I look at that picture, I see a Tiefling, not some bizarre head dress. I mean, come on, what's with the eyes? And the fact that, unlike your picture, you can see space between her collar and the horns. Meh. Whatever.
My whole point, which was picked up nicely by a few here, is that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Mallus, well done you.
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
Thing is, I've been repeatedly told how 4e isn't really D&D. It's too this or too that. Mostly I've been told that it has moved too far away from the roots of D&D. But, this image is the root of D&D for me. You've got the blaster mage, the weird assed elf chick (or whatever) and the black eyed dwarf? gnome? (hey gnomes had black eyes back then too )
Yes, D&D is Clive Caldwell and Larry Elmore. I get that. I agree too. But, it's also Erol Otus and Bill Willingham. It's also Brom and Di Terlizzi and Wayne Reynolds and a host of others too.
It's a complete mix mash of all sorts of styles and elements. The idea that "This fantasy" is the right one and "that fantasy" isn't just leaves me scratching my head.
Or, to put it another way, does it matter if a basilisk has four or eight legs?
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
Indeed. Perhaps I'm missing the whole point of the thread--perhaps my irony meter is turned down way too low--but surely it's fairly obvious it's an elf with a helmet, isn't it?
Nah, look at the shape of her face and head, the long proportions of the neck and body, obviously its a goatfolk woman.
Thing is, I've been repeatedly told how 4e isn't really D&D. It's too this or too that. Mostly I've been told that it has moved too far away from the roots of D&D. But, this image is the root of D&D for me. You've got the blaster mage, the weird assed elf chick (or whatever) and the black eyed dwarf? gnome? (hey gnomes had black eyes back then too )
Yes, D&D is Clive Caldwell and Larry Elmore. I get that. I agree too. But, it's also Erol Otus and Bill Willingham. It's also Brom and Di Terlizzi and Wayne Reynolds and a host of others too.
It's a complete mix mash of all sorts of styles and elements. The idea that "This fantasy" is the right one and "that fantasy" isn't just leaves me scratching my head.
Or, to put it another way, does it matter if a basilisk has four or eight legs?
Its Clyde Caldwell, and a basilisk has 6 legs. Appreciation for art is perhaps even more subjective than for gaming systems (if thats possible) so right and wrong don't really apply. Is just a matter of most to least liked.
Nah, look at the shape of her face and head, the long proportions of the neck and body, obviously its a goatfolk woman.
Ahhh Broos...
so 4E=Moldvay/Cook=Runequest?
On a serious note: Wiillingham rocks, my fave D&D artist next to Jeff Dee. And Tramp and Sutherland right in behind them.
__________________ Founding Father of O.A.F! - Old school Admirers of Fourth edition
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"I feel books like "A Princess of Mars", "The Swords of Lankhmar" and "The Black Company" are far more important to your gaming experience than whether you choose between OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, or D&D4E." - The Ravyn
I think people sometimes get too fixated about what's "official" to see what they could do with the whole- "David "Zeb" Cook
Its Clyde Caldwell, and a basilisk has 6 legs. Appreciation for art is perhaps even more subjective than for gaming systems (if thats possible) so right and wrong don't really apply. Is just a matter of most to least liked.
Ahh, close on the Clyde/Clive thing, but, as we can see from the title of the thread, names are not my strong suit.
However, if you open up your Expert D&D book, you'll see that basilisks have 4 legs. Who'da thunk?
But, my favourite quote from the book would have to be:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert Rules Page X3
As player characters grow in wealth and power, they may build castles or strongholds to keep themselves and their retainers safe. They may encourage settlements around their fortresses in order to support them, eventually becoming the rulers of their own territories. From their wilderness bases, they can settle and rule larger areas, bringing civilization to the wilderness.
And people say 4e ain't retro.
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
(shrug) I for one don't think there's anything new or distinctive about "points of light". Did anyone here NOT find themselves defending little villages against looming threats in their edition of choice???
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
Either that, or the WOTC retcon ninjas have struck!
Phaezen
So what you are saying is that the reason the Edition Police don't break down your door and burn your old stuff--is because the black ops side has already replaced it with something very similar, but containing subtle alterations?
Those sneaky devils! And here the whole time, I thought the denial that they didn't break down your door was a simple answer to conspiracy theorists!
(shrug) I for one don't think there's anything new or distinctive about "points of light". Did anyone here NOT find themselves defending little villages against looming threats in their edition of choice???
Shrug right back atcha.
I've read repeatedly, over and over again how 4e couldn't possibly be D&D. How it's a totally different game, so far removed from what went on before that it is barely recognizable.
Yet, when we start taking a look, all sorts of themes are pretty much the same.
- Goofy art showing weird assed characters? Check.
- Heroes that carve out a civilization out of the darkness? Check.
Or, how's this for comparison?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert D&D X54
Designing a Wilderness
A. Decide on a Setting.
B. Draw a Map of the Area.
C. Place the Dungeon and the Base Town
D. Locate Areas under Human Control
E. Place Areas under Non-Human Control
F. Outline the Base town (In list of importance: Inns and townhouses for adventurers to rest); Churches (for Raise Dead); Thieves Guild (for information, market for treasure, smuggling, spies and hireling thieves); Town Militia (to keep an eye on the town - and the players!)
G. Fill in the Important Details and Points of Interest.
H. Create Special Encounter Tables and General Lairs.
Sounds pretty darn familiar to me. Looks pretty much exactly like how design is laid out in the 4e DMG.
__________________ Currently running: Sufficiently Advanced over Maptool. Soon to change. If you'd like to join in a short 3-8 session campaign for various systems, drop by our forums.
I double-dog-dare you to make your game sound super cool without comparing it to other editions. - paraphrased from Umbran.
)
Appreciation for art is perhaps even more subjective than for gaming systems (if thats possible) so right and wrong don't really apply. Is just a matter of most to least liked.
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