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The author that Gary himself handpicked is no longer working on the project
The only company (and game system) Gary wanted to work on this project with is also out of the picture.
Speculation/thoughts:
I cannot forsee GG coming back and asking TLG for a C&C license.
If it goes LA, it will really tank- whether Mongoose prints/publishes or not (gary himself didn't think LA was right for CZ, and it's his own damned game system)
Going 3E is a big mistake
4E is a mistake as well
PF may be the only viable option, however I'm sure Gary would not want that (or 3E or 4E)
This whole thing is FUBAR
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I think people sometimes get too fixated about what's "official" to see what they could do with the whole- "David "Zeb" Cook
idiotic move. i mean, has gail gygax even played dnd before? does she have a clue what she is doing with the intellectual property? it smells like it is all about money.
damn shame
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They could release it under the OGL, statted for compatibility with traditional D&D. (This is basically the approach taken by Goodman Games with their 1e DCCs, and by Pied Piper with his later 1e compatible releases.)
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They could release it under the OGL, statted for compatibility with traditional D&D. (This is basically the approach taken by Goodman Games with their 1e DCCs, and by Pied Piper with his later 1e compatible releases.)
I was wondering about this, too. Some have assumed the 'worst' (from the standpoint of a fan of the material as so far presented), i.e. that it will be converted to LA or 4E (and thus make it far less useful to people who don't play those highly unique systems).
That may happen. On the other hand, it may end up being as you speculate. If it is released for traditional D&D, or even for something more specific like OSRIC, that would make it a lot more tempting for me personally. In the final analysis I just don't care for C&C that much: the big 'innovation' of the SIEGE Engine is to introduce a bunch of infernal skill-rollery into otherwise excellent D&D!
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
So the rest of Castle Zagyg will be pretty much the name only, eh?
No.
Gary did create a "bible" for this project that reportedly already has everything in it.
My problem is they got rid of the only people who knew all the unwritten stuff Gary talked to about this project.
They got rid of the writer who has done an excellent job writing and sounding like Gary wrote it. He is also the guy Gary picked to work with.
So I hope they can pick up where TLG and the team left off, but my hopes are real low on the chances right now.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
In the final analysis I just don't care for C&C that much: the big 'innovation' of the SIEGE Engine is to introduce a bunch of infernal skill-rollery into otherwise excellent D&D!
You know, I would understand your opinion a lot better if I understood that. Every edition of D&D has skill rolling rules. OD&D, 1E, 2E, etc... C&C just has it rolled into the same mechanic as saves, so its easier. Plus if you don't like it you say, "There are no skills in MY C&C!!" POOF!! They are gone and the game is not changed in the least. Unless you get rid of the "class skills", then you'll have to rewrite things a little bit.
Still, with skill checks being identical to saves...
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
If Gygax Games does end up releasing Castle Zagyg for 4E, I hope they'll at least take some of the good advice (especially mine ) from this thread.
__________________ "AD&D is designed to be an amusing and diverting pastime, something which can fill a few hours or consume endless days, as the participants desire, but in no case something to be taken too seriously." - Gary Gygax (DMG, 1979)
"There are people who regard the RPG as something more than an amusing game, more than a most entertaining hobby. They really do need to get a life" - Gary Gygax (EN World, 2004)
You know, I would understand your opinion a lot better if I understood that. Every edition of D&D has skill rolling rules. OD&D, 1E, 2E, etc...
What are you counting as "skill rolls" in original white-box D&D?
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What are you counting as "skill rolls" in original white-box D&D?
The roll under your attribute rule, that may have been optional, don't remember. Been a while since I have read the boxed sets, I only read the RC anymore. Plus I don't know which box it first appeared in. It could have been in one of the more advanced boxes.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
You know, I would understand your opinion a lot better if I understood that. Every edition of D&D has skill rolling rules. OD&D, 1E, 2E, etc... C&C just has it rolled into the same mechanic as saves, so its easier. Plus if you don't like it you say, "There are no skills in MY C&C!!" POOF!! They are gone and the game is not changed in the least. Unless you get rid of the "class skills", then you'll have to rewrite things a little bit.
Still, with skill checks being identical to saves...
Well, I should start a new thread about this. Perhaps I will in a bit when I have the time.
Essentially, this is how I see D20: there is a complication. You try to position yourself (or the group MVP) to roll against your best skill to solve it (example: you could use Climb or Disable Device; your climb is better so you tell the DM you'll go with that one). Then you roll the D20 and hope for a high result. The End.
It's just roll after roll, always trying to put your "best foot" (highest-rated skill) forward. That's basically all there is to figure out (the game is "solved" as they say in boardgaming) and thereafter all you're doing is playing against the dice.
C&C is the same. Want to see something? Roll to see it. Want to climb something? Roll to climb it. Want to compose a poem? Roll to compose it. Ad nauseam. It's a thoroughly new school game.
I don't mind having a "skil" such that it justifies why my character can do X, but I don't want it to be the mechanical means by which he does X.
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
I cannot forsee GG coming back and asking TLG for a C&C license.
If it goes LA, it will really tank- whether Mongoose prints/publishes or not (gary himself didn't think LA was right for CZ, and it's his own damned game system)
Going 3E is a big mistake
4E is a mistake as well
PF may be the only viable option, however I'm sure Gary would not want that (or 3E or 4E)
This whole thing is FUBAR
GG, TLG, C&C, LA, CZ, 3E, 4E, PF, FUBAR?
You have exceeded your allotment of acronyms for the remainder of 2008.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joethelawyer
this totally sux
idiotic move. i mean, has gail gygax even played dnd before? does she have a clue what she is doing with the intellectual property? it smells like it is all about money.
damn shame
What's a damn shame is you bashing a well respected member of this industry who was also recently widowed because you're upset about a game.
I don't know if Gail games, but I do know she was a very gracious host to everyone who gamed with Gary. So she definitely knows something about gaming.
Money is always an element to a game product being made, so I can't fault her for trying to be financially smart either.
I do question severing ties with TLG. She could have them put it together as her team, and still publish via Mongoose, or whomever she wishes to use.
I do question getting rid of J. Talanian, Gary's hand picked co writer for the last few years on this very project. J.T. has proven his ability to write in Gary's voice, plus he has the best understanding of how Gary wanted everything to be done. That is all gone now.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Well, I should start a new thread about this. Perhaps I will in a bit when I have the time.
Essentially, this is how I see D20: there is a complication. You try to position yourself (or the group MVP) to roll against your best skill to solve it (example: you could use Climb or Disable Device; your climb is better so you tell the DM you'll go with that one). Then you roll the D20 and hope for a high result. The End.
It's just roll after roll, always trying to put your "best foot" (highest-rated skill) forward. That's basically all there is to figure out (the game is "solved" as they say in boardgaming) and thereafter all you're doing is playing against the dice.
C&C is the same. Want to see something? Roll to see it. Want to climb something? Roll to climb it. Want to compose a poem? Roll to compose it. Ad nauseam. It's a thoroughly new school game.
I don't mind having a "skil" such that it justifies why my character can do X, but I don't want it to be the mechanical means by which he does X.
Something tells me you didn't play a lot of thieves...
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