General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
In case you aren't aware of it, there's another source of old D&D material besides eBay and Amazon - at least, if you're open to PDF's. RPGNow.com has a lot of old D&D books in PDF form for pretty cheap. I picked up the Red Box set there, after reading so much about it here (and, like the RC, still haven't had a chance to play it).
The best part about buying the PDFs is that you can print your own The One Cyclopedia To Rule Them All (i.e., all of the Sets printed out and packaged in a single spiral-bound tome).
__________________ I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
I had a huge post that somehow got deleted cause the forum logged me out while I was typing it. Here is the nutshell.
1. Use henchmen and hirelings. CHA is not a dump stat.
2. B2 is excellent.
3. Avoid the "optional" rules in the RC for a while.
4. If still worried about lethality, start PCs with 2500 XP. That put thieves at 3rd level, everyone else at 2nd level (including the ceric that can now cast one spell) excpet the elf who will still be first level.
5. If you do #4, let them roll one random treasure that they would have gotten on the previous adventures.
Have fun and let us know how the sessions go.
__________________ Looking for South NJ, (Burl. Co. area) gamers, possibly for some 1974 OD&D.
Personally I like Labyrinth Lord better than the Rules Cyclopedia because when I said "I'm thinking of running a RC game" one of my players said: "Great! Weapon Mastery! Mystics! Can I play an Elf with no level limit?" - I don't think that would happen with LL, it has none of the RC's extraneous accumulations. Plus the art is better. Granted, it doesn't have the excellent War Machine mass combat system either, but that's easy to port over.
Personally I like Labyrinth Lord better than the Rules Cyclopedia because when I said "I'm thinking of running a RC game" one of my players said: "Great! Weapon Mastery! Mystics! Can I play an Elf with no level limit?" - I don't think that would happen with LL, it has none of the RC's extraneous accumulations. Plus the art is better. Granted, it doesn't have the excellent War Machine mass combat system either, but that's easy to port over.
Yup. I find LL smoother, too: less rules, more freestyle. I find it very refreshing when I can play a whole module as one of Paizo's Pathfinder issues in just one game night.
OTOH, we enjoy greatly the tactical component of 3.x, so we have our hearts divided
Personally I like Labyrinth Lord better than the Rules Cyclopedia because when I said "I'm thinking of running a RC game" one of my players said: "Great! Weapon Mastery! Mystics! Can I play an Elf with no level limit?" - I don't think that would happen with LL, it has none of the RC's extraneous accumulations. Plus the art is better. Granted, it doesn't have the excellent War Machine mass combat system either, but that's easy to port over.
Ah, those are some of the things I LIKE about the RC!!!
If you want to use Ad&d monsters, you can subtract 1 from the monster's AC; everything else shouldn't be too off. You might also look at the Cleric's spell progression in the C&C quick start guide. LL might also be a good set, or try C&C which has modernized some of the rules in the RC. The RC is a great book, it is almost worth the premium that is charged for it.
If you want to use Ad&d monsters, you can subtract 1 from the monster's AC; everything else shouldn't be too off. You might also look at the Cleric's spell progression in the C&C quick start guide. LL might also be a good set, or try C&C which has modernized some of the rules in the RC. The RC is a great book, it is almost worth the premium that is charged for it.
Actually if you re using the AD&D 1st ed. MM, you can use the AC as is. There is no AC 10 in the book. It was written during a transition period from OD&D to AD&D and still retains the OD&D armor class scores, (which translate later into Classic D&D.)
__________________ Looking for South NJ, (Burl. Co. area) gamers, possibly for some 1974 OD&D.
I apologize that so much of this thread has been me just asking questions.
Yeah. ’Cause we aficionados of the older games just hate being invited to talk about them. (^_^)
No need for an apology...unless you stop asking questions. (^_^)
__________________ (^_^)
Anything I type is only my opinion unless explicitly stated otherwise, which should go without saying. Please assume that I've left out a smiley after every sentence. Thank you.
Shall we talk about printing nicely bound rules Cyclopedia from our printer?
Heh. I just sent mine down to Word Processing. They've got double-sided speedy printers and fancy bindings.
__________________ I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion, you are entitled to your informed opinion. If you are not informed on the subject, then your opinion counts for nothing.
So we just finished our second RC game. This time I had my players roll up their own characters--a dwarf and a magic user. I did some minor plot set-up with the characters being exiles from a nearby kingdom after the old king died and his son took over. I set them up in the same village they were in before. The barkeeper was even there, and they got to hear about the insane events that had happened a few months before. In the end they decided to go back to the Orc King's lair. This time they were after all of his loot, and conned a few people from the tavern into going with them. They pulled a pretty good heist by means of a rather ridiculous plan involving a trail of burning orc bodies for the guards to follow while the party ran in, grabbed all the loot, and then ran out as fast as they could. Only one of their hirelings died. Next game they'll probably head east to the Keep on the Borderlands.
I decided I like RC a lot. I think my players do too, for the most part. One commented that he really liked not using the battle mat, though he was pretty mad at first when he rolled a 1 for his hit points. It was still really fun, and luckily none of their characters died. At first they were determined not to name them until 3rd level, but eventually gave them names anyway. The best part, I think, was they focused way more on planning interesting and creative attacks and ways to get out of combat than they ever did in 3 or 4e. I also still stand by my statement that they game is tons more immersive than the newer editions.
The only real complaints were over the slow accumulation of XP and the magic user's having only 1 hit point.
We're probably going to play again on Tuesday, maybe, since none of us have class or work due to Veteran's day.
Oh, I made everything up as I went this time as well.
__________________ IF IT EXISTS, NERDS WILL ARGUE ABOUT IT
You might be interested in a hit point house rule that I use in my OD&D game: PCs roll all of their hit dice each time they advance a level; if the new hit point total is less than the old total, the old total will be retained. If they lose a level, they roll all their hit dice for the lower level; if the new total is greater than the old total, the old total is retained.
__________________ "You want to play "Semantics and Lawyers"? Go ahead. We'll be busy kickin' ass and chewing Stygian Black Lotus- the best!" - Predavolk
You might be interested in a hit point house rule that I use in my OD&D game: PCs roll all of their hit dice each time they advance a level; if the new hit point total is less than the old total, the old total will be retained. If they lose a level, they roll all their hit dice for the lower level; if the new total is greater than the old total, the old total is retained.
That's a cool idea, and I may use it if my players start getting too frustrated. For now I think I'm going to do my best to play the game by the book for the most part.
I've read most of Keep on the Borderlands, and while I do like it a lot, I don't know how much of it I'm going to use. I think I'd rather play the game like I've been playing it, and base everything off of random encounters and tables. I'll probably use the keep and the people who live there, and while i like the Caves of Chaos and all the stuff in it, the more I read of the descriptions of the various caverns, the more I'd just rather make my own stuff and do it myself. I don't think I'm much of a module person, I'm starting to realize. I'd much rather just draw up my own dungeons and then leave it up to the dice to determine what lives there.
This is my plan for the game:
Have a general idea of the layout of the area: i.e. there are some elves living to the north, to the east is nothing but untamed wilderness and beasts, to the south are some mountains and some dwarves, and back west is the kingdom the characters have been banished from. As an aspiring paleoanthropologist, I'm considering having a few settlements of Neanderthals out in the north eastern wilderness and mountains for the party to encounter and interact with. I also have in my head a deranged wizard as an antagonizing character of some sort. I think he'd be the kind of guy who would never want the party dead, but would love to use them for all manner of strange, disturbing and certainly unethical magical experiments. And of course I'd need the classic of strange and abandoned ruins and dungeons, which I feel would need some kind of history. Actually, part of me wonders if I need history for it at all. Maybe that'd be the mystery. Who built them? what happened to them? Who knows. I also want to include some sort of rumor about some ancient dragon who terrorized the area and a young warrior princess who led a crusade to slay the beast. I have no idea how that ties into anything, but that's how I want it. I want this all to be loose, somewhat formless ideas at the moment that I can expand on as we actually play.
Really, just writing this out makes me feel like I'm thinking about it too much.
I'm also aware that a lot of these ideas are typical D&D tropes and cliches, and that I'm not doing anything new at all, and I'm instead retreading what everyone has done before for the past thirty years. That's partly what I want. To me, as someone who's main experience has been with newer, supposedly less cliche fantasy fiction, there's a certain charm to the old stuff. There's something quite endearing, fun and cool about a tough barbarian hailing from the frozen north, a tricksy hobbit and a wizard with a pointy hat in some distant land of mystery and adventure. I'd imagine I wouldn't want to play that way for thirty years without change, but I like the more folklore/mythologically based vibe it can kind of give.
But now I'm ranting.
__________________ IF IT EXISTS, NERDS WILL ARGUE ABOUT IT
Before that I just thought it was some board game with dragons.
I had the exact same thought until I found a copy of the basic set at a garage sale. Since then, I've played every edition.
Also... "It is sweet and proper to die for one's country". The old lie. Nicely quoted.
__________________ 4th Ed Chars Fallen:
Spoiler:
Gavin Ward - Male Human Warlord 1 - The party started a bar fight. The fellow who escaped brought his bandit buddies back and they killed Gavin (and nearly three other party members). He bled out while lying on the floor.
4th Ed Kills:
Spoiler:
Cornell Butterworth - Male Human Wizard 1 - Knocked unconscious by a kobold dragonshield the fighter ignored, then done in by the kobold wyrmpriest's acid breath.
Lithia - Female Elven Ranger 11 - Contracted mummy rot, which eventually did her in.
Brendan Stetlan - Male Human Fighter 4 - Knocked unconscious in combat, then thrown to the wolves.
Vindicator Mindartis Valenae - Eladrin Paladin 5 - Dropped by a githzerai monk (L6 elite), and killed when the rogue threw him off the balcony to try and get his body to safety.
Vongar - Male Dwarf Paladin 1 - Fell in battle after defeating Irontooth, but not his bodyguard.
Straef - Male Elf Ranger 1 - Fell in battle to Irontooth's Wyrmpriest.
You might be interested in a hit point house rule that I use in my OD&D game: PCs roll all of their hit dice each time they advance a level; if the new hit point total is less than the old total, the old total will be retained. If they lose a level, they roll all their hit dice for the lower level; if the new total is greater than the old total, the old total is retained.
My first DM used that house rule too. I still use that for all incarnations of D&D I play.
__________________ "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
your good works and give glory to your Father
who is in heaven." - Matthew 5:16 - One of Gary Gygax's favorite bible verses.
Also... "It is sweet and proper to die for one's country". The old lie. Nicely quoted.
That was mainly the first random phrase I thought of when I tried to figure out what to use as a sig. I think it was because I had recently read Owen's famous poem. I suppose it's fitting, though, with tomorrow being Armistice/Remembrance/Veteran's Day and all.
But anyway
__________________ IF IT EXISTS, NERDS WILL ARGUE ABOUT IT
Here is the nutshell.
Granted, it doesn't have the excellent War Machine mass combat system either, but that's easy to port over.
Linear Mode
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