PHBII Classes Confirmed

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by doctorhook

Why should Warlocks get a new build in every book?

Oh, not every book. I even think the Darkness pact warlock was unnecessary. It's just that a Silver Flame warlock has been a fan favorite (been created several times over on the WotC boards), and it's a nice "Good" Warlock compared to the others.

Don't disagree about an Invoker method.

[CleverNickName]

Originally Posted by Marshall

Great. As if 4e needed another WAR named class. Can we build an entire party of WARxxxx classes now?

Nope...not yet. You will have to wait for the PHBIII, which is rumored to contain the following classes:

Warder
Warner
Warbler
Wardancer
Warrant Officer
Warmonger
Warrantor
Warrener
Warehouseman
War Bride
War Criminal
War Widow
Ward-heeler

It's only a rumor...but remember, you heard it here first.

Frankly, I'm excited at the prospect of playing a heroic rabbit-farmer...

[Mercurius]

Maybe Theurge was renamed Invoker, and I-as-Inquisitor was renamed (the more diplomatic) Avenger. Thus an Avenger = angry and extra-zealous paladin.

Personally I think these look great.

[Henry]

I just find it amusing that, after all the "4E Avenger" namecalling over on the WotC Forums, that there will now be, in fact, 4E Avengers.

[doctorhook]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

Maybe Theurge was renamed Invoker, and I-as-Inquisitor was renamed (the more diplomatic) Avenger. Thus an Avenger = angry and extra-zealous paladin.

Personally I think these look great.

I think the big question on everybody's mind is, "What the hell is the 'Avenger', exactly? What will this class do that other classes don't?" We're all really curious; I know I am, because I'm genuinely not sure what it's about.

Is it a Paladin-lite? Is it a Rogue who prays before assassinating someone? Is it a "holy warlock"-type character, blasting foes with superpowered godlasers? "Divine" and "Striker" almost seem like an unnatural combination at times.

It's not that I doubt WotC can do it, I just find myself really unsure about what exactly the Avenger must does.

Originally Posted by Henry

I just find it amusing that, after all the "4E Avenger" namecalling over on the WotC Forums, that there will now be, in fact, 4E Avengers.

lol When you put it like that, Henry, it makes it hard for me not to like it! ...Perhaps that was the inspiration?

[bagger245]

                 Martial   Divine          Arcane         Primal
Defender        Fighter   Paladin        Swordmage   Warden
 
Controller          Invoker/       Wizard         Druid
                            Theurge(?)    Sorceror 
 
Striker         Rogue   Avenger        Warlock       Barbarian
                  Ranger
 
Leader         Warlord  Cleric          Bard             Shaman
                                               Artificier

I came up with this matrix, can someone help me clean it up?
Any news on a martial controller?

[Elphilm]

If we leave out setting specific classes such as the Artificer and the Swordmage, WotC appears to be going for four classes per each power source. If we put the classes in PHB1 and PHB2 together, it seems safe to assume that we get the following matrix:

             Arcane     Divine     Martial    Primal

Controller   Wizard,    Invoker    -          Druid
             Sorcerer
Defender     -          Paladin    Fighter    Warden
Leader       Bard       Cleric     Warlord    Shaman
Striker      Warlock    Avenger    Ranger,    Barbarian
                                   Rogue

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by doctorhook

I think the big question on everybody's mind is, "What the hell is the 'Avenger', exactly? What will this class do that other classes don't?" We're all really curious; I know I am, because I'm genuinely not sure what it's about.

Is it a Paladin-lite? Is it a Rogue who prays before assassinating someone? Is it a "holy warlock"-type character, blasting foes with superpowered godlasers? "Divine" and "Striker" almost seem like an unnatural combination at times.

Many people have said the Monk would make a fine Divine Striker. Hell, Ari made the monk a divine striker in the Advanced Player's Guide. Divine is purely the explanation of the power source, and striker merely means "Mobile + Doing lots of damage + in trouble when alone against several enemies".

Now that I think about "Striker" and "Divine", I find myself imagining an Avenging Angel. An instrument of judgment, empowered with the wrath of their god to bring pain and punishment upon those that have wronged. One whom will track down the blasphemous offender to the ends of the Planes, and allowing nothing to get in its way.

Or, if you prefer: David slew Goliath with one shot.

Where the Paladin protects, or he single-handedly steps into a throng of an evil army, cutting a swath through it, or single-handedly battles a tide of onrushing demons, the Avenger goes straight to the heart of the matter, his holy sword piercing the source of the evil itself, such as the sorcerer who brought the Demons.

As I think about it, one method it could have is playing off doing damage to foes who have hurt party members. Similar to how the Paladin's mark damages foes who attacks the non-paladin, the Striker could do extra damage to those who have harmed their allies. Getting bonuses to damage when their allies are bloodied, and so on.

[doctorhook]

Originally Posted by Elphilm

If we leave out setting specific classes such as the Artificer and the Swordmage, WotC appears to be going for four classes per each power source. If we put the classes in PHB1 and PHB2 together, it seems safe to assume that we get the following matrix:

             Arcane     Divine     Martial    Primal

Controller   Wizard,    Invoker    -          Druid
             Sorcerer
Defender     -          Paladin    Fighter    Warden
Leader       Bard       Cleric     Warlord    Shaman
Striker      Warlock    Avenger    Ranger,    Barbarian
                                   Rogue

I like your matrix, but I don't understand why you'd leave out Artificer and Swordmage. If seen this argument before, and it doesn't make sense to me.

What's setting specific about the Swordmage, other than that it appears in the FRPG? You could be playing any setting and role up a Swordmage, and it wouldn't make a lick of difference to the game. I mean, it's a fully functional class, and it's getting support in a non-setting-specific book, Arcane Power. Why exclude them?

...The reasoning I've heard previously is, "It's so that it looks like WotC is publishing four classes per power source!" Except that there's going to be at least six classes for the Arcane power source, for example.

[Elphilm]

Oh, it certainly wasn't because I've got something against the Artificer and the Swordmage - just that the classes in the matrix are "the core", as in published in the Player's Handbooks. No value judgement intended.

[Kobold Avenger]

Originally Posted by Elphilm

Oh, it certainly wasn't because I've got something against the Artificer and the Swordmage - just that the classes in the matrix are "the core", as in published in the Player's Handbooks. No value judgement intended.

They're core enough to be mentioned in other books beyond player's guides, and it's been stated by the designers that they're core too.

[Andor]

Originally Posted by Kobold Avenger

They're core enough to be mentioned in other books beyond player's guides, and it's been stated by the designers that they're core too.

Does the word 'core' hae any meaning any more, aside from 'Produced by Wotc'?

Not a snark, I'm genuinely curious. Does Wotc produce any material that is not core? If not I think the meaning has shifted from 'These materials are the base of the game' to 'Not a 3rd party product.'

[jsaving]

Originally Posted by Elphilm

If we leave out setting specific classes such as the Artificer and the Swordmage, WotC appears to be going for four classes per each power source.

Yes, they've said on several occasions that they need at least four classes per splatbook, so it's quite likely we'll see exactly four classes per power source in the future.

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

There are two ways I would go with a Divine Striker either of which could fit - with some modification - the avenger:

1.) Holy Slayer/Assassin - Something more in line with the original sense of the term. This would be a character who was good at disguises, sowing confusion, and could take lots of damage in the pursuit of target offensive to the religion. Probably lots of fire.

2.) Exorcist - Not so much the Western idea - though some of that - as the Eastern idea of someone armed with weird weapons, some wards, and almost no armor. Loads of bonuses fighting the supernatural and helping people with saving throws. Should have some sort of mental duel mechanic.

[darjr]

Originally Posted by andor

does the word 'core' hae any meaning any more, aside from 'produced by wotc'?

rpga