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The last Draconomicon book was one of the best selling books for the entire life of Dungeons & Dragons v.3.5. With that great Todd Lockwood cover alone it deserved such fan support.
So far 4th edition books seem to have a lot less fluff which makes comparisons with the 3rd edition version less than helpful. Isn't the new book really just Monster Manual: Chromatic Dragons?
The last Draconomicon book was one of the best selling books for the entire life of Dungeons & Dragons v.3.5. With that great Todd Lockwood cover alone it deserved such fan support.
So far 4th edition books seem to have a lot less fluff which makes comparisons with the 3rd edition version less than helpful. Isn't the new book really just Monster Manual: Chromatic Dragons?
So far 4th edition books seem to have a lot less fluff which makes comparisons with the 3rd edition version less than helpful. Isn't the new book really just Monster Manual: Chromatic Dragons?
No, or rather "depends". You get (nearly) all the fluff the 3E Draconomicon had. So if you don't have the 3E Draconomicon the 4E one is a very good book.
On the other hand if you do have the 3E Draconomicon then the only new thing you get are monsters and lairadventures.
__________________ Everything about RPGs is subjective, so everything I say about them is I my opinion and not hard facts
Having a backstory is good. Using this backstory in game is better. And for that you need background skills.
4E, the game where you play HSMFOS
Heroic
Only good, or at least unaligned adventurers are supported and no monster you can fight is good aligned.
Super-
The PCs become masters in any skill automatically and it is impossible for them to be bad at a mundane task
Mutants
Compared to NPCs of the same strength, PCs poses a ungodly amount of HP and can withstand huge mountains of punishment. That or they can spontaneously regenerate wounds.
From Outer Space
Yet despite no matter how powerful the PCs become, they can never do anything special what the "natives" (=NPCs) can do like animating a skeleton.
To be honest, I have no idea how these books (3e or 4e) sell any copies whatsoever. The utility of such books around the table is, I would think, very limited
+1
$30-$40 for a book I'd hardly ever use, if at all? No thanks (even a MM Dragon is used very rarely in my games). As a DM I cannot stand RPG books with such narrow focus. A book that covered all the undead however (as an example), is something I'd be interested in (I don't know what the 3.X version/s were like but I'm assuming this is what they encompassed). Or something wth greater utility, like collections of Magic Items, or Wizard Spells, or such
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I think people sometimes get too fixated about what's "official" to see what they could do with the whole- "David "Zeb" Cook
Very similar/identical fluff to the 3E Draconomicon.
New crunch for the 4E rules. Nice preview of deity rules with Tiamat. Nice chapter on alternate dragon abilities allowing you to customize individual dragons.
Everyone's mileage will vary. Just keep in mind how often you'll use this book, how much overlap with the 3E version there is (if you have that book already), and the price tag of $40.
Odd how it advertises "Three new chromatic dragon types!" Implying that they're new monsters, but they're just updates of dragons from 3E that weren't in the Monster Manual. Not a big deal, just kind of funny to me.
So far 4th edition books seem to have a lot less fluff which makes comparisons with the 3rd edition version less than helpful. Isn't the new book really just Monster Manual: Chromatic Dragons?
I wish the 4e Monster Manual had even a quarter of this information!
Lairs? Treasure? Unique threats? The 4e Draconomicon delivers on the promise of the name pretty well. It's not just a library of stats, that's for dang sure.
The fluff is a little neutered in parts, in comparison to previous editions, but if you play 4e (or are thinking about maybe playing 4e), it's a very solid book with some very valuable information. It's a rockin' DM supplement for the game.
I think the 3e supplement happened to rock a little harder, but now we're just debating between Mega Chocolate ice cream and Super Chocolate Ice Cream. They're both delicious, and if the're not making Super Chocolate Ice Cream anymore, they could do worse.
Hey, finally got my copy. First impression: Argh! Need more art!
What happened to the MM's philosophy of giving a picture for every monster?! We're lucky if we get one for every other one here! If it weren't for the Chapter 4 splash page, I'd have no idea what gray dragons look like!
I would have paid $5 more for new pictures of the pyroclastic and shadow dragons, easily. Sure, I can just open my 3.5 Draconomicon, but new DMs can't. Evocative art makes me want to use monsters, but I'll skip over a statblock without images.
That said, this is still a great book. The monster design is fantastic (look at that ancient gray! I have zero worries he'll be able to take on a party), and so is the fluff writing. I haven't taken a good look at the lair adventures yet, but if Hearts of Darkness is anything to go off of, they should be very helpful if I stick a dragon in a campaign.
So that's my two cents. A great book, but would have been greater if it were more heavily illustrated. Maybe an artbook supplement?
EDIT: ooh, first error. Page 116, Razcoreth doesn't have Crown of Madness like his tactics suggest.
Last edited by yesnomu; 26th November 2008 at 04:21 AM..
If it weren't for the Chapter 4 splash page, I'd have no idea what gray dragons look like!
This! I can't believe the main art for the gray dragon has it looking AWAY from the reader! It's like a magazine cover showing you the back of a beautiful model's head. 100% fail.
The book itself though is 100% win IMO. I'm heading into Paragon territory with my campaign soon, and the story is going to revolve around Tiamat for a while, so the 4e Draconomicon is going to be getting a workout.
Like I said in the other Draconomicon thread: The gray dragon has me wanting to make a mini-campaign or setting where the only dragon type is the gray. Something closer to Dragonslayer, mixed with Reign of Fire, some Beastmaster and Conan the Barbarian.
There were things in the book I wasn't a fan of (the famous dragons in particular skipped some of my favourites, such as Ashardalon and Flame; Using draconic organs as treasure), but no book can please everyone.
You'll be happy to know that Ashardalon was only excluded from the "Famous Dragons" section so that he could be included at greater length as the first entry in the "Draconic Hall of Fame". He's in there with just as much detail as the other heavy hitters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus
Like I said in the other Draconomicon thread: The gray dragon has me wanting to make a mini-campaign or setting where the only dragon type is the gray. Something closer to Dragonslayer, mixed with Reign of Fire, some Beastmaster and Conan the Barbarian.
That's brilliant man. I'm gonna steal that for the future, thanks!
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You'll be happy to know that Ashardalon was only excluded from the "Famous Dragons" section so that he could be included at greater length as the first entry in the "Draconic Hall of Fame". He's in there with just as much detail as the other heavy hitters.
Can I get all excited and assume that "Draconic Hall of Fame" will be a new feature in the Dragon Magazine, similar to the "Wyrms of the North"?
Can I get all excited and assume that "Draconic Hall of Fame" will be a new feature in the Dragon Magazine, similar to the "Wyrms of the North"?
Phaezen
Unlikely considering that those entries only consist out of a slightly modified stat block and 3 lore entries.
__________________ Everything about RPGs is subjective, so everything I say about them is I my opinion and not hard facts
Having a backstory is good. Using this backstory in game is better. And for that you need background skills.
4E, the game where you play HSMFOS
Heroic
Only good, or at least unaligned adventurers are supported and no monster you can fight is good aligned.
Super-
The PCs become masters in any skill automatically and it is impossible for them to be bad at a mundane task
Mutants
Compared to NPCs of the same strength, PCs poses a ungodly amount of HP and can withstand huge mountains of punishment. That or they can spontaneously regenerate wounds.
From Outer Space
Yet despite no matter how powerful the PCs become, they can never do anything special what the "natives" (=NPCs) can do like animating a skeleton.
I got the book, and so far I like it. There is a lot of stun in it, and I suspect to use it one way or another once I run a homebrew campaign (and possibly also to augment a few modules...)
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I've finished reading the book and I think its a very solid supplement with lots of useful stuff. I love new monsters, so having so many in this book is a big plus (I especially liked the planar dragons, draconic parasites, abishai, the hobbler kobolds, and the dragonborn anhilator; the epic monsters were overall, very, very cool). Something that I found interesting that hasn't been remarked upon (at least that I remember), is that the book features what I think is the first solo creature with a class template (the green dragon warlock) that I've seen.
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Unlikely considering that those entries only consist out of a slightly modified stat block and 3 lore entries.
Well, yes, because they didn't have room for another 100+ pages in the book. Didn't we discuss this earlier? :P
On the other hand, if they did produce a "Wyrm Hall of Fame" feature in Dragon, in the same vein as the entries for the Demon Princes, Lords of the Nine, and Primordials, I expect those will be rather extensive - since they have the room to really focus on one entry.
I imagine, similarly, that the entries for such beings in the Manual of the Planes will be extensive stat-blocks with full details on the Demon Prince/Primordial/etc, but not entire chapters. There just isn't room for that much detail without cutting out too much other information - I'd rather have a standard entry on Baphomet, Dispater and Oberon, than an absurdly thorough right up on a single one of them.
Well, yes, because they didn't have room for another 100+ pages in the book. Didn't we discuss this earlier? :P
I didn't think 1-2 more pages for each famous dragon would have blown the 4E Drac out of proportion. It would still have less pages than the 3E one.
__________________ Everything about RPGs is subjective, so everything I say about them is I my opinion and not hard facts
Having a backstory is good. Using this backstory in game is better. And for that you need background skills.
4E, the game where you play HSMFOS
Heroic
Only good, or at least unaligned adventurers are supported and no monster you can fight is good aligned.
Super-
The PCs become masters in any skill automatically and it is impossible for them to be bad at a mundane task
Mutants
Compared to NPCs of the same strength, PCs poses a ungodly amount of HP and can withstand huge mountains of punishment. That or they can spontaneously regenerate wounds.
From Outer Space
Yet despite no matter how powerful the PCs become, they can never do anything special what the "natives" (=NPCs) can do like animating a skeleton.
Linear Mode
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