General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
The problem, IMO, is not that the GSL is not out; the problem is that the GSL is not out, in a format as advertised, in a date that was publicized. It's why, oh, Blizzard doesn't give a firm street date for Diablo III; better to not promise anything than to promise and fall short. Works the same in business as it does in life.
I don't recall a publicized date for the GSL update. I recall Linae making the announcement just before GenCon, saying more news would be coming down in the next couple weeks. After Linae was let go the following week, Scott updated us with our last update (which is basically what he repeated here: it'll get done when he gets the time).
Do you have a source to cite for this publicized date?
__________________ If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him... and take his stuff.
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About a 1 to 1 correlation with those who want 3rd party production. I.E. everyone who cares about the GSL and everyone who would expand or develop interest in 4e if there were third party production.
That's not what I'm saying.
I don't have a FLGS. The nearest place to me with gaming books is a Books-A-Million. They have the most recent WotC books, a few White Wolf books, and one or two Pathfinder modules.
That's it.
They didn't have any 3e 3rd party options when 3e was out, and I highly, highly doubt that they will have any 4e 3rd party publications there,.
If I wasn't on EnWorld, I would know Jack about the 3rd party situation, much less the GSL and Pathfinder split business.
So my point: to the non-internet crowd, 3rd party publishing (3e, Pathfinder or 4e) may not be as significant a buy, due to a lack of information and exposure.
The question therefore I am proposing is: Which is bigger, the customer base outside of the know (thus, not 3PP customers) and/or those that just buy 1 or 2 WotC books in addition to the Core Rules, versus the customer base who are 3rd party supporters? If the former is larger than the latter, then threatening WotC with going home with your ball (so to speak), WotC might call that bluff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Little Raven
Do you have a source to cite for this publicized date?
No, but I attribute that to my inherent laziness and lack of desire to hunt for one, as opposed to the fact that it doesn't exist.
Heck, I recall rumblings and grumblings about a GSL being out in time for GenCon...
And, with that, I'll stop cluttering the thread. The trials and tribulations of the GSL hold as much interest to me as my neighbor's bowel movements. Which is to say - none.
Which color? Does it have wings? There will be a mini for it?
That said, I wish for a faster GSL revision... I'm desperate for Monster Manuals with fluff...
All of a sudden, I have a crystal-clear image of Scott Rouse, in The Puffy Shirt, with a winged monkey perched on him, with him standing arms akimbo with square-jawed determination, as a new D&D mini.
WotC, the fans have spoken! Make it Happen!
__________________ "Conversely, I'm amazed at the number of people queueing up to tell people that don't like 4e that they are wrong. Why can't people just agree to disagree, and get on with actually playing the game?" --Delericho
If there's one dragon, it's a solo monster.
If there's five dragons, they're standard monsters.
If there's a dozen dragons, either most of them are minions or your DM is tired of the campaign.
--Lizard
The "All the 3PP throw down a deadline" assumes that most if not all the 3PP are willing/want to go to Pathfinder. You know, you might have some out there that, for whatever reason, might not like Pathfinder.
As soon as Wotc feels that a public license is important and that changes to the GSL need to be made it will work out the changes. At that point if 3pp are realy important they could even negotiate their terms.
And I doupt that Wotc and 3pp fail to see the actual level of their importance. In fact what everyone is thinking first place is how to increase her own importance. Not 4e. This is why Paizo for example does not support 4e.
As soon as Wotc feels that a public license is important and that changes to the GSL need to be made it will work out the changes. At that point if 3pp are realy important they could even negotiate their terms.
I'm not sure in the business world "not done yet" equates to "doesn't care about."
Anecdote time:
I have a lot of stuff on my plate at work. I can't get through it all in a given day/week/month so I need to prioritize. It's ALL important to my company, and needs to get done, but certain things take precidence.
I knew my background in social sciences research and experimental statistics would pay off someday!
-O
He still has a point though. There is not such thing as absolute randomness. Just a recognized effort that may serve as an approximation to objectiveness. Even a statistic study has its statistic chances of success or failure that are even subject themselves to further statistic chances and this goes on ad infinitum. There is no such thing as entropy in economy. It is not a gas. Even if there have been studies (and a Nobel) regarding thermodynamics and economy.
If anecdotal evidence were unimportant there would not exist politics.
I'm not sure in the business world "not done yet" equates to "doesn't care about."
It doesn't. As Le Rouse stated above, the GSL is important but:
1. There are other things to do, which are more important, right now,
and
2. There are limited resources (man-hours) available to accomplish these things.
Business management is about resource allocation. If there are things more important than the GSL the need to get done now, they will get done. If there are resources left over, the GSL will also get done. If not (which is the case here), it will have to wait.
__________________ Iain Fyffe
Original member of the Rouseketeers!
I have played 4E. And just like all other editions of D&D, it is awesome!
no one quotes me in sigs - Crothian
For some reason, this doesn't fill me with rage. I must be interwebbing wrong. - Cadfan
Quite honestly, I see a fair amount of 3pp stuff coming out, just check out this link at RPGNow. And this is just PDF stuff.
If I am not mistaken, some of these smaller new 3PPs are just guys in the biz that started a new business for this purpose. Isn't OneBadEgg just a collection of guys around the industry? I mean, their team is behind Fate and Spirit of the Century, Indie Press Revolution, and even EnWorld's CamBanks (of Dragonlance fame) is doing stuff for them.
There's some neat stuff out there. Goodman, Mongoose, XRP...
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I'm not sure in the business world "not done yet" equates to "doesn't care about."
Anecdote time:
I have a lot of stuff on my plate at work. I can't get through it all in a given day/week/month so I need to prioritize. It's ALL important to my company, and needs to get done, but certain things take precidence.
Oh come on. If the public license was important enough they would have done it allready. It is not something that needs months of R&D and that many resources Wotc cant afford.
I am in Europe on business all next week and hope to have some plane and train time to finish what I need to so it can be done before I go on the winter break.
If you happen to go through the west of Sweden on that trip, I'll be happy to buy you a beer or two.
__________________ Mikael Borjesson, Sweden
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Keeper of the swedish D&D translations
Oh come on. If the public license was important enough they would have done it allready. It is not something that needs months of R&D and that many resources Wotc cant afford.
Right. The revised GSL isn't -compared to the other stuff Scott is working on- important enough. That's pretty much what he said.
Oh come on. If the public license was important enough they would have done it allready. It is not something that needs months of R&D and that many resources Wotc cant afford.
1. A client calls me and asks me to order them some extra flyers because they're getting low.
2. An issue pops up in my inbox concerning a member not getting his benefits paid properly/on time enough times for him to go to his benefits department to complain and therefore have it sent to me and not customer service. It comes in through a system that has a garaunteed turnaround time.
Guess which one gets prioritized as needs to be done first? I'll give you a hint... the second one.
Both issues are important to me/my company/ our clients, but issue two is much more pressing and needs my attention right away.
Oh come on. If the public license was important enough they would have done it allready. It is not something that needs months of R&D and that many resources Wotc cant afford.
Sure, if they just wanted to throw resources at it until it's done they could do that. Is that cost efficient? Likely not.
Mr. Rouse has already explained that the responsibility is his to get it done, and that there are several things he has to do first.
WotC may not "care" as much as you do about getting the revised GSL done right away. Don't make the mistake of assuming they don't care at all. It's a pretty simplistic view of business operations to just say "get it done already".
__________________ Iain Fyffe
Original member of the Rouseketeers!
I have played 4E. And just like all other editions of D&D, it is awesome!
no one quotes me in sigs - Crothian
For some reason, this doesn't fill me with rage. I must be interwebbing wrong. - Cadfan
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