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I have the feeling you don't want to hear my attempts to be peaceable, and would rather just continue being angry. I don't like that fact, as my reviews are all in good fun and you are the first person who has overreacted to them. I'd like to know what line was crossed in this instance, because I just don't see it compared to all the other things I've done before.
Maybe a good idea would have been not to link to the review in the first place?
/M
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”The tendency to confuse personal taste with objective quality is nearly universal.” - Robin D. Laws – Robin’s Laws of Good Gamemastering (Steve Jackson Games, 2002)
Hindsight's always 20/20. My fault for rewarding them with attention.
Actually, your fault for overreacting – guys like Vic Sage managed to get it. But oh well. Since you're just ignoring me and don't want to make peace, or understand, we'll just leave it at that. I hope everyone else understands me a little better now, and Paycheck as well.
Actually, your fault for overreacting – guys like Vic Sage managed to get it. But oh well. Since you're just ignoring me and don't want to make peace, or understand, we'll just leave it at that. I hope everyone else understands me a little better now, and Paycheck as well.
You know, far be it for me to preach to others on the internet about what is and is not acceptable behavior, but the fact is that P&P went to a great deal of legal research, not to mention the investment of a lot of personal time and effort to make OSRIC a reality. Even though he could be making some cash off of this, instead he's made it available for free and will be making a print version available in a way that still won't make him very much money. Unless you happen to buy the supporter version, the only one making money here is Lulu, and let's not kid ourselves, most gamers will take cheap over expensive any day of the week. When I go to a site and see that someone has posted something that might be of interest to me for free, I usually make a point to drop them a line letting them know that I appreciate their hard work. Take for example starfrontiersman.com where they've remastered the original Star Frontiers game and created nine issues of new material for what was the premier science fiction game on the market half a lifetime ago. It would be just as out of line to rag on them for simply trying to save their favorite game and contributing something to it while they're at it.
Aside from that, there are a fairly large number of people who are not enamored with brand new "cutting edge" games (whatever that's supposed to mean in a game of "let's pretend" with rules attached) and just want to enjoy the game they grew up with. Or for others who weren't around back then, want to see what the game was like when it was started so that they have something to compare the current versions to.
Bottom line here is that the last time I checked, free is a gift. You don't have to like a gift or use a gift after it has been given, but to slag on someone's labor of love and then call them out for not appreciating your humor is a bit disingenuous.
And for what it's worth, you're welcome to review any product that has my name on it and I'll be sure to place it in the appropriate context and give it whatever consideration it deserves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Sage
Wow.......just wow.........you really are an . I was going to buy your product but that now.
Wow, 3 posts. Alterrific!
__________________ Darrin Drader
Freelance Writer/Game Designer
Previously posting as Whisperfoot
Or somone who just does a healthy bit of lurking. But yeah, keep thinking I'm just a sockpuppet man.
Wait wait wait wait wait wait.........are you seriously saying that because somethings free its above criticizm? This is a product, and no product free or not, made as a labor of love or not is above any form of criticizm. I doubt thats what your trying to say (Hell I just woke up like 10 mins. ago) but for reals man.
Last edited by Vic_Sage; 30th November 2008 at 09:44 PM..
One last post to talk to Darrin, whom I want to thank for talking to me as an individual and being straight.
I understand all of what you said. And to a point that is how I feel. I acknowledged that OSRIC is free. Much like I did with Pathfinder, Swords and Wizardry, Dread, and Wushu. I also acknowledged, that OSRIC is great for what it is. However, when I write, I do it in that style, and those elements and whatever my personal feelings are I bury into the persona I project when I'm writing my reviews. I write rather schizophrenically on my blog – certain posts have certain personas and the prevailing one is to be acerbic and badmouthed. That's the humor.
I don't like, and can understand, when people are offended by what I write. So whenever I think somebody is genuinely offended I come and try to talk to them about what happened. I don't like, either, when I am ignored and written off as a non-person when I'm trying to explain myself and make peace with somebody. Admittedly at this point I was not being a paragon of peace, but I was a little annoyed, and have since cooled off enough approach this from a different perspective. This is a learning experience for me, as like I said, it is the first time I felt I had genuinely crossed a line.
Once I had thought I offended the Chatty DM and went to talk to him, and we sorted things out, and we're cool with each other now. I even talk to him with some regularity. So I've been wanting to try to reach out and get people to understand. I'm not out to offend anyone, but to entertain my readers, who have come to expect certain traits and come to me for them. I continue to deliver on that with them knowing that I'm not really like that, and hopefully with other people inferring what I really feel about a product beyond all the negativity. I think the only time I was completely unfair to a game was White Wolf's Promethean.
So I'm going to go to the post now, and edit the last part out, and hopefully we can understand each other. This is a lesson for the future for all of us, I hope.
Wow.......just wow.........you really are an . I was going to buy your product but that now.
Dude, watch your language. We have a filter, but it is not a replacement for keeping a civil tongue.
EN World is supposed to be family-friendly, and our #1 rule is "Keep it civil" - we expect you to do so. If you've got questions about our language or civility policies, please feel free to e-mail any of the moderators. Our addresses are in a post stickied to the top of the Meta forum.
However, when I write, I do it in that style, and those elements and whatever my personal feelings are I bury into the persona I project when I'm writing my reviews. I write rather schizophrenically on my blog – certain posts have certain personas and the prevailing one is to be acerbic and badmouthed. That's the humor.
I don't like, and can understand, when people are offended by what I write. So whenever I think somebody is genuinely offended I come and try to talk to them about what happened. I don't like, either, when I am ignored and written off as a non-person when I'm trying to explain myself and make peace with somebody.
So basically you troll for the lulz, and then get upset when people take your troll seriously and therefore ignore you as a "real" person with a "real" review because they won't take you seriously when you say that, now, you're not trolling.
I suggest that if you are sincerely not out to offend and if you sincerely would like to be taken as a real person that you simply stop trying to be humorous by being deliberately offensive. Funny how that would solve all the problems. You may even find a way to be funny which doesn't require being a jerk.
Dude, watch your language. We have a filter, but it is not a replacement for keeping a civil tongue.
EN World is supposed to be family-friendly, and our #1 rule is "Keep it civil" - we expect you to do so. If you've got questions about our language or civility policies, please feel free to e-mail any of the moderators. Our addresses are in a post stickied to the top of the Meta forum.
So basically you troll for the lulz, and then get upset when people take your troll seriously and therefore ignore you as a "real" person with a "real" review because they won't take you seriously when you say that, now, you're not trolling.
I want to get in a word too, so if the mods want to kill me for a final thread derail, go for it. I'm not the admin of TT, I'm just the editor, so whatever I say, Wyatt can take it back – he's got word of God on the site. But I think I know him well enough.
No, not really. Basically, we write reviews in a crazy way (we don't really care if they're taken seriously or not – actually, we do care, we'd rather they be dismissed really), when people are honestly hurt by them, we try to make amends. Wyatt tries to uphold this idea that he doesn't attack people in spite of his demeaning and acidic reviews, that he attacks stereotypes and brands instead – it's what he's become recognized for by other bloggers. This is the very first time this kind of reaction has happened, and I guess it teaches us what to go about doing next. IE forgetting about it since it's pointless to talk sense to people, I suppose.
We don't "troll for the lulz". We don't pick a game this week and go "Hey let's piss off fans of X". I don't know where the notion that we seriously want all you people to get pissy at us and leave us bad comments and stuff our inbox comes from. We have a style that's attracted readers and entertained friends and ultimately that's what matters to us, so we will keep writing the way that our readers want us to. I see no reason to fix what's not broken, because of one bad reaction.
So I guess, we apologize to Paycheck if he feels we are trying to undermine his work. We aren't.
Last edited by Faury; 1st December 2008 at 12:39 AM..
I've checked out the site in question in a little more depth and the one thing I've realized is that these guys are, by their own admission, young gamers. It makes sense, particularly when the reviewer starts with the fact that D&D 3.5 was where he started.
So my interpretation of this is that this is a generational thing and this whole conversation comes down to the old-timers telling the kids to show some respect and the kids telling gramps to shut up and take his Geritol. It's kind of funny, really, especially when we're constantly bemoaning the fact that the hobby is having a hard time attracting the younger generation, yet when the next generation shows up, warts and all, we don't exactly welcome them. And that's the problem with youth - no respect for their elders and lots of lessons to learn.
Get off our lawn!
__________________ Darrin Drader
Freelance Writer/Game Designer
Previously posting as Whisperfoot
I've checked out the site in question in a little more depth and the one thing I've realized is that these guys are, by their own admission, young gamers. It makes sense, particularly when the reviewer starts with the fact that D&D 3.5 was where he started.
So my interpretation of this is that this is a generational thing and this whole conversation comes down to the old-timers telling the kids to show some respect and the kids telling gramps to shut up and take his Geritol. It's kind of funny, really, especially when we're constantly bemoaning the fact that the hobby is having a hard time attracting the younger generation, yet when the next generation shows up, warts and all, we don't exactly welcome them. And that's the problem with youth - no respect for their elders and lots of lessons to learn.
Get off our lawn!
Heh... when I started gaming we had to use chits! Sometimes you had to make your own... and walk there uphill... both ways!
Print a PDF? What the heck was a PDF? You had mimeographed copies in purple ink that smelled and made you a bit woozie! Assuming you could make a copy.
Battle maps? We sometimes didn't even have graph paper, just lined stationary that we took a pencil to freehand. Every other room was 10' square with an orc or a dragon and a pile of loot!
Heck, we only had three classes when i started gaming. 3.5 has like 3 trillion... 'Course 4e has only 8, old is new again
Oh, and yes... Get off my grass you darn whipper-snappers! heh
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Anyone found a typo or mistake in it yet? I've proofread it, and so have the other authors, but fresh eyes really help... I'm relying on the public to help find the mistakes before I start taking people's money for print copies.
There's one serious one I already know about: the sample dungeon doesn't have room numbers.
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Anyone found a typo or mistake in it yet? I've proofread it, and so have the other authors, but fresh eyes really help... I'm relying on the public to help find the mistakes before I start taking people's money for print copies.
There's one serious one I already know about: the sample dungeon doesn't have room numbers.
Not had a chance to fully go over it as i got an acrobat error when it loaded about needing a newer version, and don't need some reader only when I have a full version. I had mostly been just playing with the character sheet.
Should I still be around by the end of next week, I should have had time to read it for typos, and also check AD&D itself for any, doubtful, gross rules misrepresentations.
I do like the green in it though and the art so far looks pretty good for what I have skimmed.
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