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I've checked out the site in question in a little more depth and the one thing I've realized is that these guys are, by their own admission, young gamers. It makes sense, particularly when the reviewer starts with the fact that D&D 3.5 was where he started.
So my interpretation of this is that this is a generational thing and this whole conversation comes down to the old-timers telling the kids to show some respect and the kids telling gramps to shut up and take his Geritol. It's kind of funny, really, especially when we're constantly bemoaning the fact that the hobby is having a hard time attracting the younger generation, yet when the next generation shows up, warts and all, we don't exactly welcome them. And that's the problem with youth - no respect for their elders and lots of lessons to learn.
Get off our lawn!
Sure thing! (And I find your summation of the situation rather humorously accurate).
I just want the devs and fans of OSRIC to know that it wasn't personal, and I wasn't trying to attack them or to spoil their big debut of 2.0. You just got a lot of work out into the public and you would be touchy about negative opinions. I should have been aware of the timing and its implications, and I wasn't. That was a failure on my part. It was just another review for me in the way I usually do them. It was not meant to target OSRIC or it's fanbase nor to draw petty ire from anybody, but to present the broad stereotypes and extremes that I and my readers are routinely faced with and turn into humor, while also talking about an RPG product and continuing some of the discussions and themes that my readers have been wanting for some time.
If it and the following comments on the blog post were offensive to OSRIC or its fanbase, I apologize. My intention was not to stir up emotions on unrelated forums. My handling of this situation left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't want my editors or contributors to feel like they have to come here trying to explain my actions or mistakes (that means you, Faury) because I can't do so. I can, and I do.
Anyone found a typo or mistake in it yet? I've proofread it, and so have the other authors, but fresh eyes really help... I'm relying on the public to help find the mistakes before I start taking people's money for print copies.
There's one serious one I already know about: the sample dungeon doesn't have room numbers.
I've just tap danced thru it so far. Looks good. I think I'll be doing a rare event for me and ordering a LuLu copy for myself (and maybe a few more to hand out at my old group's yearly gathering).
In the meantime I expect I'll be yoking quite a bit of the monster section for my C&C game.
__________________ Erik
"Because the gods say so, and don't like pointy eared types with curly-toed shoes, squat miners with big beards, hairy-footed midgets, etc." - EGG
Tenkar's Tavern Exploring the world of VTTs, PDFs, Gaming Related Applications and more
Sure thing! (And I find your summation of the situation rather humorously accurate).
I just want the devs and fans of OSRIC to know that it wasn't personal, and I wasn't trying to attack them or to spoil their big debut of 2.0. You just got a lot of work out into the public and you would be touchy about negative opinions. I should have been aware of the timing and its implications, and I wasn't. That was a failure on my part. It was just another review for me in the way I usually do them. It was not meant to target OSRIC or it's fanbase nor to draw petty ire from anybody, but to present the broad stereotypes and extremes that I and my readers are routinely faced with and turn into humor, while also talking about an RPG product and continuing some of the discussions and themes that my readers have been wanting for some time.
If it and the following comments on the blog post were offensive to OSRIC or its fanbase, I apologize. My intention was not to stir up emotions on unrelated forums. My handling of this situation left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't want my editors or contributors to feel like they have to come here trying to explain my actions or mistakes (that means you, Faury) because I can't do so. I can, and I do.
You riled up the seniors, and we can be a bunch of Grumpy Old Men... heh
But yeah, shock jock style reviews can be offensive to those that aren't in your target audience.
Oh, and if you ask nicely I might let you on my lawn to retrieve your ball... maybe
__________________ Erik
"Because the gods say so, and don't like pointy eared types with curly-toed shoes, squat miners with big beards, hairy-footed midgets, etc." - EGG
Tenkar's Tavern Exploring the world of VTTs, PDFs, Gaming Related Applications and more
If it and the following comments on the blog post were offensive to OSRIC or its fanbase, I apologize. My intention was not to stir up emotions on unrelated forums. My handling of this situation left a very sour taste in my mouth. I don't want my editors or contributors to feel like they have to come here trying to explain my actions or mistakes (that means you, Faury) because I can't do so. I can, and I do.
Okay, we're cool now.
__________________ Download the new, improved, washes-even-whiter OSRIC v2.00 for FREE! OSRIC Monsters of Myth
(1) P&P, I can't wait to buy a copy off Lulu. You've done a remarkable job with this, and it's very impressive.
(2) I think Meek & Faury's reviews are pretty damn hilarious. I'm enjoying reading them, and I'm working my way through the site now. So, I know it ruffles some feathers, but I hope you keep on producing reviews like this. Don't spare the snark.
I'd rather like it if instead of cheering on your fans to send me emails about how I'm a pedophile for liking anime, and childishly attacking me for unrelated things, we could talk about why you're so upset, and why you can't handle the joke.
Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I did not find your "review" helpful. The vulgar language, needless attacks on the reader and on those who like the retro-game genre, and a generally crass presentation is quite off-putting, to be honest. If that is what your regular readers like and want, that is fine. However, someone coming in to just read this review will be in for a bit of a shock and may find it objectionable. This style of writing is not for everyone, so you should not be surprised that people object to it. Oh, and for the record, the fact that you like anime has nothing to do with my opinion of the review. I do not understand the fascination some people have with anime, but that doesn't mean I have anything against the person.
__________________ Stephen J. Miller
Co-author of Gaslight: Victorian Fantasy RPG, from Battlefield Press!
Available now at RPGnow.com
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
You too can be an Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon! Ancient Gamer Store
Anyone found a typo or mistake in it yet? I've proofread it, and so have the other authors, but fresh eyes really help... I'm relying on the public to help find the mistakes before I start taking people's money for print copies.
There's one serious one I already know about: the sample dungeon doesn't have room numbers.
I have not had a chance to go over it in detail as of yet. I have a couple of other editing projects I am working on, and I am supposed to be writing some material for a new game that I have to get done ASAP. I will give it a look real soon, I promise!
__________________ Stephen J. Miller
Co-author of Gaslight: Victorian Fantasy RPG, from Battlefield Press!
Available now at RPGnow.com
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
You too can be an Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon! Ancient Gamer Store
Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can tell you why I did not find your "review" helpful. The vulgar language, needless attacks on the reader and on those who like the retro-game genre, and a generally crass presentation is quite off-putting, to be honest. If that is what your regular readers like and want, that is fine. However, someone coming in to just read this review will be in for a bit of a shock and may find it objectionable. This style of writing is not for everyone, so you should not be surprised that people object to it. Oh, and for the record, the fact that you like anime has nothing to do with my opinion of the review. I do not understand the fascination some people have with anime, but that doesn't mean I have anything against the person.
I've never listened to "Shock Jock" radio broadcasters and I am certainly not going to read blogs of similar poor taste. Such "practice" just feeds the behavior into the general populace. A general populace who proves time and time again that they aren't necessarily smart enough to leave ascerbic language out of day to day conversations.
For example, there are plenty of people who do not let Rap or Rock music influence them to behave badly. There are still far too many who do.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
I've never listened to "Shock Jock" radio broadcasters and I am certainly not going to read blogs of similar poor taste. Such "practice" just feeds the behavior into the general populace. A general populace who proves time and time again that they aren't necessarily smart enough to leave ascerbic language out of day to day conversations.
For example, there are plenty of people who do not let Rap or Rock music influence them to behave badly. There are still far too many who do.
Censoring is not the answer to the issue. That's sort of like painting a moldy wall and saying there's no more problem.
Censoring is not the answer to the issue. That's sort of like painting a moldy wall and saying there's no more problem.
Its not censoring when parents don't let their children listen to it. Its not censoring when I refuse to listen to it. Its only censoring when a government says your not allowed to say it, or listen to it.
__________________ It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do.
Its not censoring when parents don't let their children listen to it. Its not censoring when I refuse to listen to it.
I never made the claim that either were.
However, it IS still a similar case of what I said. If there's a problem, hiding or ignoring the syptoms doesn't solve the problem. But I think thats the subject of a different board.
Golly, I never realized ENWorld could be so puritanical.
Meh, it doesn't surprise me much; coming as it does hard on the heels of last week's thread/poll that pointed out how many people refuse to drink and game.
Meh, it doesn't surprise me much; coming as it does hard on the heels of last week's thread/poll that pointed out how many people refuse to drink and game.
I honestly don't see how the two are related. I'm not puritanical, in fact I'm an atheist, but I wouldn't drink at a game. It's hard enough to stay on topic without impairing yourself. Your results may vary, but drinking and gaming have never gone together in any group I've belonged to.
__________________ Darrin Drader
Freelance Writer/Game Designer
Previously posting as Whisperfoot
So, anyway, back to OSRIC. I found it a pretty nice presentation, with lots of information in it that could be used for any edition. My only complaints about the presentation are the blank and all green blank divider pages. A well bookmarked PDF does not need those pages. I might understand having them there for the print file for Lulu, but not in the general distribution file. Oh, and the last 3 entries in the bookmark list do not point to the right pages.
I will give it a more detailed look later, but it looks pretty good so far.
__________________ Stephen J. Miller
Co-author of Gaslight: Victorian Fantasy RPG, from Battlefield Press!
Available now at RPGnow.com
Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
You too can be an Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon! Ancient Gamer Store
Deluxe Hardcover: 8.25" x 10.5" casewrap hardcover, colour cover with colour interior, on standard paper, 402 pages. $100 plus shipping. (I don't expect to sell very many of these but the offer will be there!)
Wanna bet? Considering that I won't be buying any 4E ... I might just be very tempted ...
That brings the total number of people interested in that to two.
I expect the $8.50-ish softcover on the cheap paper to be the big seller, because it'll make a cheap table-copy of the rules that you don't mind lending to a friend and it's okay to spill coffee on.
__________________ Download the new, improved, washes-even-whiter OSRIC v2.00 for FREE! OSRIC Monsters of Myth
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