1E/2E/OD&D OSRIC 2.0 Released today

[Reveille]

Originally Posted by WereSteve

Deluxe Hardcover: 8.25" x 10.5" casewrap hardcover, colour cover with colour interior, on standard paper, 402 pages. $100 plus shipping. (I don't expect to sell very many of these but the offer will be there!)

Wanna bet? Considering that I won't be buying any 4E ... I might just be very tempted ...

Ditto. That would be my first purchase of '09 if I'm able to put in an order for it in January.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Originally Posted by Reveille

Ditto. That would be my first purchase of '09 if I'm able to put in an order for it in January.

We'll see. I'm on holiday over the Christmas period. When I get back in early January, I'll fix the typos and make the corrections people send me, and get a proof.

If I charge you $100 for a book, I don't want to be apologising to you afterwards for problems with it!

[Chainsaw]

P&P et alia:

Thanks for OSRIC - it's OSome! Last night I thoroughly read through the "How to Play" chapter and really enjoyed it. I've recently begun a 1E campaign and that chapter offered clear summaries of the basics, clearing up confusion I've had on surprise, initiative, time and movement (combat, dungeon, wilderness) among other things. Needless to say, there's also plenty of good DM'ing and PC'ing advice. Call me crazy, but I've actually decided to use 1E segments rather than 2E initiative after reading OSRIC, heh. Enough though, I don't want to sound like you've paid me.

Anyway, I do plan on buying a copy, so I thought I'd mention one minor presentation issue I noticed. In the "How to Play" chapter, there's a section on Exploring the Wilderness (p.140), where you offer a brief summary of play order contained in a wilderness turn (steps 1-7), then elaborate on the steps. Each step's elaboration has a number and title in bold, which makes it easy to follow. In the "Adventure and Exploration" section (p.135), there's also a brief summary of play order, but then the elaboration (p.136-139) doesn't really have corresponding numbers or bolding. I think the presentation in Exploring the Wilderness is easier to follow because of the additional numbering and bolding. If it's possible, you might consider using this format in the Adventure and Exploration section too.

Anyway, thanks again all your and your teammates' hard work.

[T. Foster]

Originally Posted by Chainsaw

P&P et alia:

Thanks for OSRIC - it's OSome! Last night I thoroughly read through the "How to Play" chapter and really enjoyed it. I've recently begun a 1E campaign and that chapter offered clear summaries of the basics, clearing up confusion I've had on surprise, initiative, time and movement (combat, dungeon, wilderness) among other things. Needless to say, there's also plenty of good DM'ing and PC'ing advice. Call me crazy, but I've actually decided to use 1E segments rather than 2E initiative after reading OSRIC, heh. Enough though, I don't want to sound like you've paid me.

Anyway, I do plan on buying a copy, so I thought I'd mention one minor presentation issue I noticed. In the "How to Play" chapter, there's a section on Exploring the Wilderness (p.140), where you offer a brief summary of play order contained in a wilderness turn (steps 1-7), then elaborate on the steps. Each step's elaboration has a number and title in bold, which makes it easy to follow. In the "Adventure and Exploration" section (p.135), there's also a brief summary of play order, but then the elaboration (p.136-139) doesn't really have corresponding numbers or bolding. I think the presentation in Exploring the Wilderness is easier to follow because of the additional numbering and bolding. If it's possible, you might consider using this format in the Adventure and Exploration section too.

Anyway, thanks again all your and your teammates' hard work.

Thanks for your kind words. That chapter (to me) is the best part of OSRIC because it takes the existing 1E rules and explains them more clearly and concisely than the actual 1E rulebooks ever did without actually changing them. Of course I may just feel that way because that's the chapter I did the most work on personally

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, taking the numbers and sub-headers out of the dungeon exploration section was my decision, because I wanted a more free-flowing, conversational essay style and the stricter format interefered with that. However, there should still be bold words at the beginning of each subsection to serve as guideposts (following the same order as the flowchart on pp. 135-6) that appear to have been lost in the formatting:

p. 136, 2nd column: "Movement during dungeon exploration..."
p. 137, 1st column: "Listening may be performed..."
p. 137, 2nd column: "Opening doors is not normally difficult..."
p. 138, 1st column: "Mapping is a key element..."
p. 138, 2nd column: "Searching for hidden treasure..."
p. 139, 1st column: "Disarming traps is normally a job..."
p. 139, 1st column: "Casting spells is detailed..."
p. 139, 1st column: "Rest periods are typically necessary..."
p. 139, 2nd column: "Other actions are defined..."

Hey, Stuart: were those bold words removed deliberately or by accident? And if it was the former, can we get them put back in -- pretty please? I agree with Chainsaw that without them that 4 page block of solid text becomes pretty unwieldy (which is not at all the effect I was going for...).

[TerraDave]

Its impressive, and cudos to the many that worked on it.

The "How to Play" and especially the "Dungeons, Towns, and Wilderness" chapters managed to both bring back good memories and be well enough organized that I could use some of them in my (not old school) game.

It almost made me want to break out some old modules and run "as is".

Almost, but not quite.

[Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by T. Foster

Thanks for your kind words. That chapter (to me) is the best part of OSRIC because it takes the existing 1E rules and explains them more clearly and concisely than the actual 1E rulebooks ever did without actually changing them. Of course I may just feel that way because that's the chapter I did the most work on personally

Thanks again TFoster. I'm not normally one that enjoys reading the rules (I'd rather be playing of course), but that chapter connected so many dots that I had to stop and comment to someone (my poor wife) about how helpful (and painless) it was. Honestly, it was so liberating that I felt like someone had given me the keys to a brand new car, heh.

Anyway, as for the numbering and bolding, your comment that both makes the text feel less free flowing and conversational makes sense. I'm sure bolding alone would create sufficient guideposts.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Originally Posted by T. Foster

Hey, Stuart: were those bold words removed deliberately or by accident? And if it was the former, can we get them put back in -- pretty please? I agree with Chainsaw that without them that 4 page block of solid text becomes pretty unwieldy (which is not at all the effect I was going for...).

By accident I think. I'll see if I can't get that fixed for the print version.

TerraDave: Give in to your anger. Oh yes. Come on over to the Gygaxian side. Just break out those old modules and run a session or two... and see if something in your head doesn't go "Bree-Yark!" and drag you back, kicking and screaming, into the 1980's when men were real men (often with sideburns), women were real women (often in dolphin shorts and much too much hairspray), and 10 ft poles were real 10 ft poles (and there were up to three of them in every adventuring group)!

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by Mark

You must realize which camp your use of the word "Golly" places you in?

Only if you realize which camp your misunderstanding of my irony places you in.

-O

[mach1.9pants]

Originally Posted by Obryn

Only if you realize which camp your misunderstanding of my irony places you in.

-O

I spat my coffee...O you owe me a new G15

It is a great piece of work this and at a quite reasonable price. I can't see us playing it until we have done the 'full 30' in 4E but maybe we will go back........it is a good read so thanks

[Darkwolf71]

Originally Posted by PapersAndPaychecks

That brings the total number of people interested in that to two.

I expect the $8.50-ish softcover on the cheap paper to be the big seller, because it'll make a cheap table-copy of the rules that you don't mind lending to a friend and it's okay to spill coffee on.

You might be suprised. Oh, I'm sure it won't sell hundreds, but I'm betting it will sell dozens. I prefer hardbacks to softcovers for (IMO) obvious reasons, and the fact that I could brake this out and leave my in-very-good-condition 1e books on the shelf, nice and safe... Not even a question. Sold!

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Originally Posted by Darkwolf71

You might be suprised. Oh, I'm sure it won't sell hundreds, but I'm betting it will sell dozens. I prefer hardbacks to softcovers for (IMO) obvious reasons, and the fact that I could brake this out and leave my in-very-good-condition 1e books on the shelf, nice and safe... Not even a question. Sold!

Sure. But I'm expecting people to buy the black and white interior hardback at $28.05 in preference to the superdeluxe colour one that Lulu charge the Earth for.

If you can afford $100, then get three $28.05 hardbacks and a couple of $8.50 softbacks to lend to your friends!

[Darkwolf71]

Well, granted it's not so much the color interior as it is the hardback itself.

Guess, we'll just have to see what the final options are. Even if it's only softbound, I'm looking forward to a printed copy of this.

[T. Foster]

The plan, as far as I'm aware, is to offer OSRIC in 4 different hardcopy versions (all via Lulu):

1) budget-line softcover on cheap paper, at cost (~$8.50)

2) softcover on nicer paper at a bit of a premium -- the "I like OSRIC so I don't mind throwing a couple extra bucks at the developers to help them meet their costs" edition (~$15.00)

3) hardcover with b&w interior art, at cost (~$28.00)

4) hardcover with full color interior art (like the pdf), at cost (~$100.00)

#3 is presumably the route most people who want hardcopies will tend to go, but it's a shame that the b&w interiors won't look nearly as nice as the full-color pdf. Unfortunately, the pricing on #4 via Lulu eliminates it as a possibility for almost everybody (and certainly for me). I remain convinced that a full-color hardback at $50 would be the best version -- combining the attractiveness of the pdf with the tactile appeal of a hardcopy -- and would sell in significant quantities, even with the cheaper/free options available, but have been assured that price-point isn't achievable via Lulu and would require an actual print-run, which brings up a whole raft of other issues (warehousing, order fulfillment) that OSRIC's publishers aren't set up to handle.

[Obryn]

I'll be in for one of the B&W hardbacks, for certain. That's a heck of a deal. I'll also recommend my players grab their own copies. I'd guess 2 of them will do so for certain.

I considered printing it out in color at Kinko's, spiral-bound, but that'd be in the $40-50 range, and to be honest I'd rather have it in a book than in color.

-O

[Thondor]

Hi, as for errors typos etc.

Not sure this really qualifies as one of those but the term used doesn't really make sense to me (it left me scratching my head.)

P. 196 the Goblin description it says: "Goblins are good cavers . . ."

my mind blanked, whats a caver? You could say instead "goblins are good/skilled spelukers . . ." or "goblins spend most of there lives underground/in caves . . ." or "goblins are good escavators . . ."

The original MM says "miners" for those curious souls.

I'll try to post more as I find them. (Though I should really download the non-reveiew version, internet has been shaky lately though.)

[Thondor]

Originally Posted by PapersAndPaychecks

Yes, I did give some thought to that.

The basic design philosophy for OSRIC is: one book contains all the rules. That's one (1) core book, with optional supplements from third party publishers to taste.

......

That was unpalatable to me. I wanted OSRIC to be available at a price that makes it accessible to young people, or to retired people, or to disabled veterans, or whoever, rather than targetting the relatively well-heeled 30-somethings and 40-somethings who're accustomed to paying $40 per book.

And I liked the unity and simplicity of having everything in one place.

But within those constraints, I did do what I could to help people do the "Players Handbook" thing. Notice the careful ordering of the chapters!

If you're playing a melee character and you want the minimum information to do that, you can just print Chapter 1. If you're playing a caster, you can print Chapters 1 and 2 (because Chapter 2 contains all the spells). If you'd like a complete PHB, you can print Chapters 1, 2 and 3 and have all the character generation rules, all the spells and all the tables.

Chapters 4, 5 and 6 comprise the GM-oriented material and together, they make a combined DMG/monster book.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I apreciate it. And it helps to hear the design philosophy behind the decisions.

Unfortuanately do to access to internet constraints (the 'digital divide') most of those who really can't afford it also won't be able to find it. But if no one takes steps to lower these factors (as you have) they'll never disappear.

In any case, hopefully this thread gets back on topic.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Thanks for the thoughts and the kind words, Thondor.

[justanobody]

For all the stupid people out (t)here.

Does OSRIC work like the OSL for ????, and how exactly does one use it as such to create their own stuff? For the laymen as well.

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Originally Posted by justanobody

For all the stupid people out (t)here.

Does OSRIC work like the OSL for ????, and how exactly does one use it as such to create their own stuff? For the laymen as well.

Because of the OGL, I can't use the trademarked term that WOTC own from your post. I can say that OSRIC uses the OGL to allow you to publish materials for the first edition of the game Gary Gygax wrote (hereinafter called 1e).

You don't have to use OSRIC to publish 1e-compatible materials. Some publishers have produced that stuff directly, without using the OGL. But I think I'm right in saying that the majority use OSRIC--for various reasons, some to do with legal concerns, some to do with an ethical stance on wanting to support the open gaming movement, and some because they want to write for a system they see as "living" (and there's a whole discussion to be had about that, but I don't want to go into it while answering your question).

If you're a layman, your best bet is to write your material and submit it to a third party publisher, who'll decide whether they want to accept it. If they do, they'll give you a small amount of money (and, I'm here to tell you, nobody gets rich from RPG publishing) and they'll deal with the technical and legal issues. If they reject it, approach a different publisher.

If you want to know how to become a publisher, then I think that's a bigger question than I'm equipped to answer. There are a few hints and suggestions on the OSRIC website but basically you're going to need to have, or collaborate with people who have:

1) a thorough knowledge and understanding of the OGL;
2) artistic skills and computer programs;
3) cartography skills and computer programs;
4) layout skills and computer programs;
5) a decent website;
6) a gaming group prepared to playtest your material;
7) editing and proofreading skills; and
8) a whole lot of time.

Hope that helps a bit.

[justanobody]

Just making sure I am telling people correctly when I send them to look at the new version that it is OGL for "1e" type of games. (der...of course you can't use that and neither did i )