General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Missing the ground isn't as ridiculous as it sounds.
Go outside and mark a fairly large red X on the ground, then walk back 20-50 feet away from it.
Now pitch baseballs at that X. No underhand tossing, no gentle lobbing. A direct, fast throw.
Throw about 100 of them, and see if you hit that X every time. Most people will miss it quite a few times. I'll bet I'd only hit it about 50% of the time, or less. A very good pitcher would probably hit it 95% or more of the time, but he could still miss occasionally.
Now have a couple of your friends run around and spar in between you and that X on the ground 20-50 feet away, and keep trying to hit it.
Now try to hit it quickly while angry dogs are running toward you barking and growling.
Not as easy as it sounds anymore, eh?
Sure, if you're aiming at an adjacent square, I'd say there's no need for a roll. That's easy. But further away, I'd give the ground a base AC/Reflex of 8, plus you'd take the penalty for attacking a "prone" target with a ranged attack, plus I'd make it especially easy for the piece of ground to get cover or superior cover if anything or anyone was in the way, because it has no height component, no bulk to aim at.
So you could easily end up having to hit a 10 or 12, maybe even a 15, virtual Reflex score, to target a piece of ground. That's still not very tough, but at least it provides some chance to miss, which doesn't seem unlikely to me, and it also maintains the game balance aspect.
So no "free" minion-killing without a roll. But still pretty easy, because you're just trying to hit an X on the ground.
How 'bout this:
Base AC: 10
Effective Dex 0: -5
Prone Bonus: +2 (It was +2 right? Away from books right now)
Cover: +2 (if there's an enemy blocking your way)
Or you could simplify, define "hitting the ground" as "hitting the space of ground a person of Reflex Defense X is standing upon," and use the reflex defense of the person in question as the target number.
Or you could simplify, define "hitting the ground" as "hitting the space of ground a person of Reflex Defense X is standing upon," and use the reflex defense of the person in question as the target number.
I think the point of the discussion is when you want to hit a square that doesn't have anyone standing in it.
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"I tore myself away from the safe comfort of certainties through my love for truth - and truth rewarded me."
- Simone de Beauvoir
So you could easily end up having to hit a 10 or 12, maybe even a 15, virtual Reflex score, to target a piece of ground. That's still not very tough, but at least it provides some chance to miss, which doesn't seem unlikely to me, and it also maintains the game balance aspect.
It doesn't really maintain balance, as the ground's Reflex doesn't scale with level, so higher level characters will have an easier time aiming at the ground than at a level appropriate opponent.
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I know that it isn't a perfectly simulationist answer (in all fairness though, 4e isn't especially simulationist to begin with) but in the case of something like Fire Seed targeting an empty space, I would make the AC/Reflex/whatever of the space equal to lowest value of the creatures adjacent to the space being targeted.
Making it a flat value means that higher level characters will only fail on a nat 1 (though a fair arguement could be made that by those levels there are so many auto-damage powers that having Fire Seed act as one 95% of the time really isn't an issue). If you set it at the lowest value of the creatures inside the AoE, it scales, which is preferable to me (and if you really need a simulationist explanation, you can say that it represents the chance that those adjacent to the square will bat the seed aside mid-flight).
If the player simply wanted to create damaging terrain (targeting a square that had no adjacent enemies) I'd make it a flat AC 10, since whether it has any effect at all will be fairly situational, and creating damaging terrain seems to be a controller specialty.
I know that it isn't a perfectly simulationist answer (in all fairness though, 4e isn't especially simulationist to begin with) but in the case of something like Fire Seed targeting an empty space, I would make the AC/Reflex/whatever of the space equal to lowest value of the creatures adjacent to the space being targeted.
Hmm, I like this idea.
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__________________
"I tore myself away from the safe comfort of certainties through my love for truth - and truth rewarded me."
- Simone de Beauvoir
Actually, can someone tell me the usefulness of 'Call of the Beast'? I don't really 'get' its purpose.
Apologies if this has already been answered to your satisfaction (or if this has already been mention), but Call of the Wild seems like a power designed to help support defenders, especially ones like paladins or swordmages who aren't as sticky as fighters.
Cast this on a bunch of enemies near the paladin, and the paladin's ability to take the hate and protect the squishies goes up. It's almost as if the paladin used Divine Challenge on all the monsters in that area.
I would really just say that you have to target an enemy or Flame Seed doesn't work at all. I'm pretty sure the attack roll requirement for the zone is built into the power to maintain balance with things like Scorching Burst and Cloud of Daggers.
If a player asks me why, I'd say that the seed works by taking the life energy of the creature hit and turning it into a fiery zone around it. Or whatever.
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