General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
I'm currently having a debate with a very stubborn and obstinate member of my gaming group who was indoctrinated by a certain well-known commercial RPG into believing that wizards in any game ever written should never be able to wear metal armour without incurring a chance of failing in their spellcasting attempts because the iron (it goes without saying) mysteriously interferes with their magic and of course all wizards are old weaklings who can't wear armour because naturally you need training to even move in a chainmail shirt. Needless to say to state my own partisan viewpoint I completely disagree with all the aforegoing points.
However this stubborn man has challenged me to come up with instances in classic myths, fantasy literature, fantasy movies and other parts of our Collective Consciousness of fantasy which show wizards wearing armour.
Now, I'm not fussy about the distinction between wizards, sorcerers, magi, magicians, enchanters, etc. for these purposes, as long as we start from the premise that they are using something that my stubborn friend would regard as "arcane" as opposed to "divine" magic and are racially fully human and living, or at least humanlike.
So far, I've come up with Elric [human? humanlike?], who I think wears armour at some point. Anyone who could confirm that please do.
However mostly I am asking because I am lazy - please can people come up with a list of figures from literature, classic myths, movies, poems, children's stories etc. - anything which feeds into our collective imagery of magicians (but NOT simply RPGs) - even a few would be very helpful so I can give him the link to this thread!!!
Garion from the Belgariad series by David Eddings wears armor a few times in the story, and he is a magic-user (sort of).
One problem I see with this challenge is that in most old literature/stories, there is no distinction between arcane and divine; Merlin was more of a druid in certain versions of the old legends. And plenty of magic-users in fiction have the ability to use healing magic, which is divine in D&D.
Start by reminding your friend that magic isn't real, so game physics for magic are totally contrived according to the particular group's tastes and preferences.
However this stubborn man has challenged me to come up with instances in classic myths, fantasy literature, fantasy movies and other parts of our Collective Consciousness of fantasy which show wizards wearing armour.
Darth Vader.
On a more serious note... Thulsa Doom. Robert E. Howard's stories are full of Wizards, especially evil ones, that wear armor.
Also, the White Witch from The Chronicles of Narnia went to battle in armor.
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Last edited by Pbartender; 2nd December 2008 at 08:08 PM..
I am not sure your "I am going to prove you wrong" is the right approach with this player. He is not sticking to it to be awkward but because he finds the explanation satisfying. If I were you I would try and provide him with an alternate explanation of how magic and armour interact to replace the one he envisages.
I assume this person is not from D&D because if he is then he has missed the D&D explanation for the reason armour inhibits spells completely; it is nothing to do with metal and everything to do with the somatic component of spells being inhibited by wearing restrictive clothing of any kind (gauntlets etc).
The only game I ever remember using this type of explanation was MERP I think. Where did he obtain this prejudice?
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Don't some of the spellcasters in the Black Company books wear armour? I've only read about half of one random one, but I vaguely recall that being the case.
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I think it's funny that you mentioned two seperate characters that are essential played by James Earl Jones!
This is correct. You need to have at least 1 or 2 ranks in the James Earl Jones prestige class, to allow spellcasting in armor.
On topic, you could always default to:
"Why yes, armor does interfere with spellcasting. That's why the almighty Circle of Carrot Magi worked so hard to come up with this 0-level cantrip that permits casters to ignore the negative effects of armor. How does it work? Why ... it's magic."
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Don't some of the spellcasters in the Black Company books wear armour? I've only read about half of one random one, but I vaguely recall that being the case.
Some of the Taken probably do; I think it's pretty much a personal preference.
Pretty much anyone in Amber, though given the flexibility of the setting you're probably setting up for a "it's not really magic" argument.
I think the problem is that, in looking for examples in media, you're sort of conflating two things. Wizards in literature generally don't wear armor because they're not soldiers, not because it interferes. Heck, in alot of books, fighters don't wear armor. you can probably list the number of major characters in novels that routinely wear plate mail on one hand. Most characters, if they wear armor, wear padded or some kind of leather; maybe chain, and then it's almost always just the "combat" character, not the sidekick or the arcanist or the love interest.
Shadowrun allows - even encourages (armor is usually pretty cheap and quite helpful against bullets) - mages to use armor; there are IIRC several depictions of mages in Shadowrun's archetypal "Lined Coat" in the books. Hell, Shadowrun mages - sample characters included - usually carry guns as well.
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Sparhawk and the rest of the knights of the Elene Church in David Eddings' the Elenium and Tamuli all cast their Styric magic while in full armor. While that magic did come from gods, it was presented as much more like arcane magic, especially since it came from gods outside of the one actually served by the knights. It was more like all arcane magic coming from Mystra or Boccob or Ioun.
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I'm pretty sure.
If he's a DM and you want to play a Wizard in armor, just tell him to stop being a douche because that's now how the rules of 4th edition work. Or, follow his lead and demand a case of Druids changing in to animals.
4E has rituals, use them, they're magic; Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then click; You can use “Earth” as a D&D setting; Origins of The Rouse; (look for it) The Rouse responds; (look for it) One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
Start by reminding your friend that magic isn't real, so game physics for magic are totally contrived according to the particular group's tastes and preferences.
Nothing personal against Chainsaw in this instance, but I have to say -
I'm afraid this kind of comment is pretty pointless in every circumstance where someone is tempted to use it. It manages dismissiveness with uselessness in a compact package.
I hope that everyone will resist the urge to trot it out.
Thanks
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4E has rituals, use them, they're magic;
Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then 
You can use “Earth” as a D&D 
The Rouse 
One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
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