layoffs?

[Umbran]

Originally Posted by joethelawyer

When you say "layoff or similarly amicable separation of employment", how is a layoff amicable?

"Layoff" is often used to denote separation for reasons other than your job performance. It isn't that you didn't do your job well, or someone didn't like you - the company simply didn't have a place for you any more. It is amicable in that the people who let you go still like you, and are apt to give you a good recommendation.

"Amicable" and "you like what happened" are not necessarily the same thing.

[deadsmurf]

Originally Posted by seankreynolds

And 93.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Where is your proof of the number you cite? There are many people who DO buy books based on the author's name. Just because you aren't one of them, or you don't have anyone in your gaming group, doesn't mean that you are an example of an overwhelming majority

Unfortunately only a small percentage of any consumer looks at the people behind the scenes for making <product> At a certain point people begin not so much looking at the stars in a movie and look at directors and writers. People stop looking at the president as the face of a faceless government and start paying close attention to congresspersons and senators and their staffers. They don't just look for the Masthead of their favourite fantasy shared world (ie Dragonlance) and only read the ones by Tracy & Hickman or Jeff Grubb. You're not just reading Wolverine for the character but you want to read the arc written by Jeph Loeb.

It's the same in any business or media. The vast majority of people will just look at the surface, and the people who are genuinely interested (and these are the people who ususally end up working in the field)

I don't know where I am going with this, but I am really sorry to hear about all this, Tweet and Noonan were both great designers... it's a loss for all D&D players.
At least Buehler will be able to use his permanent invite to the Magic pro-tour now, so at least a small upside there.

I'm not that familiar with the others other than some vague recognition of the names, and I feel bad for you all of you. Good luck and try to have a good christmas despite all this.

[ShinHakkaider]

Originally Posted by Piratecat

Major layoffs during the 3e era created some award-winning game companies: Green Ronin, Malhavoc Games, and quite a few more. I can only hope that layoffs during the 4e era do the same.

With the GSL being the way it is? Unlikely.

[Darrin Drader]

Originally Posted by ShinHakkaider

With the GSL being the way it is? Unlikely.

Who said they have to design for 4th edition?

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne

On the other hand, anyone who signed on with WoTC for the 4E ramp up had to realize that fewer people were going to be needed after the launch, and planned accordingly.

Tweet was there a long time before that!

But I agree though: anyone who's signed on with WotC since, say, 2001, has to be aware that their business model defines "permanent employment" as "4 to 10 years."


And my sympathies for all those made redundant. The "just before Christmas" technique always seems particularly cruel, though I doubt it's any more fun at any other time.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne

On the other hand, anyone who signed on with WoTC for the 4E ramp up had to realize that fewer people were going to be needed after the launch, and planned accordingly.

Not necessarily. With all the secrecy around 4e, a prospective employee my not have known about the ramp up until after the hiring process. And even if they did, as I said previously, when you're offered a permanent position the expectation is that it's permanent and that you'll have until until you're not longer capable or willing to do the job. At least that's what I'd expect, barring an unforseen disaster and I certainly wouldn't join a company with the expectation that the company wouldn't do well and the position I'm being hired for would be obselete or redundant in the short-medium term

I'd assume that in a well run company any temporary ramp up would be met by contractors and/or freelancers, or at the very least that the position would be described to me as only being temporary or with a limited shelf life.
IMO, companies should be hiring permanent employees when they're trending or forecasting permanent growth. Not when they need to meet short-term project-based needs.

[Herremann the Wise]

Originally Posted by seankreynolds

It depends on what you mean by "have to."

If your RPG division expected to make $10,000,000 dollars this year, and it now looks like it's "only" going to make $8,000,000 dollars this year, does that mean you "have to" lay off people so your numbers are better?

I think this a very salient point. A company we're dealing with at the moment in the window furnishing industry is going through this exact same process (as I'm sure many are at the moment). It is all about meeting targets for them and with the worldwide economic downturn, everyone's doing their best to "look good". [How good it actually looks depends very much upon which side of the fence one is sitting]

However, I'll ask again now that I've seen a few responses and respected points of view: "what does this mean"?

The following analogy may be disturbingly appropriate. In Australia here where most farmers have to regularly deal with significant drought issues, the culling of some of your cattle is unfortuantely necessary. However, in this process a farmer will never touch their breeding stock unless they absolutely have to. Have WotC cut into their "breeding stock" in their thinning of the herd? I can't help but feel that they have (but that is very much from a fan-based but ultimately uninformed point of view).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

[justanobody]

Hogwash!

How does firing people help to focus more "internal resources" on anything? Less money? Oh well fire the people that cost the most to employ of course is always the answer. Not!

Dave make your podcasts yourself, and Solice start your own forums!

I mean PHBII isn't even finished yet so who will finish the druid now if not Dave?

WotC gets coal for Christmas!

I don't think the recession is all to blame for this, nor do I think the new edition cycle of layoffs is right. Jesper Myrfors still works on cards but not Magic cards, maybe you guys could find that Bella Sera card game and work on it or something!

I don't feel like I need to rent A Christmas Carol this year, but do feel you guys got Scrooged.

[Brown Jenkin]

I know that past editions had a boom/bust cycle over its lifetime in regards to revenue, which also explains the hire/layoff cycle we have seen. I also see what apears to be a level of failure with regards to the new strategy WotC was going with to try to stop that cycle in 4E. WotC made several decisions that were supposed to level the income stream over the life of the product. The core books were intentionally limited in scope with PHBx, MMx, and DMGx coming out every year so that the first 3 books would no longer be considered all that was needed. This would to some extent match the yearly MtG product cycle where new rules/power systems are introduced each year. Then the DDI was also designed on a subscription model so that a consistant revenue stream would be coming in each month. It seems to me that these attempts to flatten the revenue stream have not worked out so far.

[ShinHakkaider]

Originally Posted by Darrin Drader

Who said they have to design for 4th edition?

I pretty much stopped listening to the D&D podcasts when 4E was announced, I may have listened to one after that. I'm pretty sure that Noonan was one of the guys who had a lot of issues with 3E and said something to the effect of "he couldnt see ever going back to 3E" or maybe it was mearls, I'm not sure.

Either way I don't see him as someone who would design for Pathfinder or anything 3E related. Honestly I couldnt see supporting anything that he would write for anything 3E related. I'd also guess that the 4E fans here wouldn't either...

Unless you were talking about him writing for something not D&D related...

[joethelawyer]

Originally Posted by Herremann the Wise

The following analogy may be disturbingly appropriate. In Australia here where most farmers have to regularly deal with significant drought issues, the culling of some of your cattle is unfortuantely necessary. However, in this process a farmer will never touch their breeding stock unless they absolutely have to. Have WotC cut into their "breeding stock" in their thinning of the herd? I can't help but feel that they have (but that is very much from a fan-based but ultimately uninformed point of view).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

good analogy.

And true what Darrin said, who said they would write for 4e? If a company canned me, call me vindictive, but the last thing I would do is produce something that helps their bottom line in any way. Pathfinder, C&C, and many other OGL options await.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Brown Jenkin

It seems to me that these attempts to flatten the revenue stream have not worked out so far.

That's a very good point. So maybe it's not that the senior management is doing a bad job - they do seem to be trying to become more predictable and avoid boom/bust cycles by smoothing the revenue stream.

They just failed.

Honestly, I'm not sure that this is a better scenario than poor management unfortunately...

[Darrin Drader]

Originally Posted by ShinHakkaider

Either way I don't see him as someone who would design for Pathfinder or anything 3E related. Honestly I couldnt see supporting anything that he would write for anything 3E related. I'd also guess that the 4E fans here wouldn't either...

Unless you were talking about him writing for something not D&D related...

There's a lot of room to write in the world of RPGs (one of the reasons I find it so enjoyable), some of which boils down to loads of descriptive text. For example, you could feasibly write a book on a campaign city that is 3/4 text. What little actual game design could come down to 3 or 4 stat blocks and a bunch of shorthand NPCs (ex Dervish McDervish: hp 75; Ftr 8, Drv 3). I suspect that even someone who is sick of 3rd edition design would go for a project like that.

Another option is to design a new system. I've had several ideas for new systems I think I'd enjoy playing. What is little more than one guy's idea of a cool RPG engine ends up being tomorrow's Savage Worlds or Cortex system.

Bottom line, I think that if he's really interested in continuing to write RPGs, he'll either go for the jobs that pay well or hold personal interest for him, just like the rest of us do.

[Vaeron]

Wow... this is the first time the bad economy has actually impacted me or something I enjoy. It's not surprising, since when people have less money they tend to spend it on food, and gas, and not so much on hobbys. That WotC is still developing DDI suggests they're doing a lot better than their contemporaries - or maybe that's the REASON for the layoffs. I can't help but notice an inordinate number were involved with digital services, and maybe expenses have been greater than expected.

To be honest, I couldn't tell you specific things Dave has done but his name stands out in my mind as being connected to a lot of stuff, such as the 4e MM. Certainly I strongly connect him to 4e due to his presence in podcasts and his DMing of the video podcast. That level of involvement would seem to make him an unlikely choice for a layoff.

I certainly wish him and his family well, and Jonathan Tweet also.

[SJ]

I don't know the real reason and don't care: this whole thing blows. Just like it blew when the layoffs hit around 3e's release.

I can accept that it's true that many buyers don't know who these people are. But I do, and I fully expect I'll miss their presence in future products. RPG games are a hobby of mine, and like many hobbyists I learn things beyond what the impulse buyer may care about, like the designer who created the material I buy. I would be surprised to learn that D&D is bought by consumers who do not consider it their hobby.

As many have said, I'm looking forward to where they go next, if they do stay in the industry. Some of the best gaming fun I've ever had happened after some brilliant people left WOTC before, I think it could happen again!

Sorry to hear it for all of you.

[scourger]

Originally Posted by Monte At Home

...it's hard not to laugh at the shocking and perhaps pitiable ineptitude of a company that makes role playing games that would lay off Jonathan Tweet, very likely the best rpg designer, well, period.

Seriously. His Omega World d20 was simply brilliant (and brilliantly simple). I'll look for things he does in the future.

[darkwing]

Good luck to those who were laid off and thank you.

Now with that out of the way, I hope Wizards uses the money saved to hire a good technical editor (or editorial team) that can spot and make unambiguous (or force the designers to make unambigous) contradictory or ill defined rules.

For example, Combat Superiority with it's Opportunity Attack stops movement and Opportunity Attacks happen before the action is finished (ok, so where is this guy actually stopped, halfway out of the adjacent square?). In the "Polearm Gamble" feat, what exactly is meant by "enters a square"? Does shifting count? Does forced movement or teleportation count? Where is the enemy actually stopped when taking into account Combat Superiority and "Opportunity Attacks happen before the action is finished" in the Polearm Gamble feat (halfway into the adjacent square?).

Anyway, yeah, hire a good technical editor.

[GameDaddy]

This is a prime example of how gaming and gaming business doesn't mix well. I feel for you recently departed team members, and offer my condolences on this whole situation. I also feel for you folks remaining with WOTC, and the things you'll have to deal with in the near future.

With that said, revenues are down, on average one to twenty-five percent (1-25%) in just about every industry in the United States at the moment. There's plenty of behind the scenes activity going on everywhere, and a lack of common sense reminiscent of my days on the Florida coast during Hurricane seasons.

When the great storms approached and the evacuation order was given, people automatically went into a hysteria-trance like state two to three days before the hurricane arrived and remained that way right up until the storm struck. Just a simple trip to Home Depot for some extra supplies was an adventure, what with the crowds competing over lumber, sand, sandbags, and cases of distilled water. I witnessed heated exchanges and some fistfights over these mundane items. It was a sight to behold.

So too, with the current economic crisis, only now the folks are fighting over money plain and simple. The Fed has printed more extra money and put that into circulation. More in the last three months than they have at any time in recent memory. The inevitable result of a rapid increase in the money supply is an inflationary backlash as the currency is devalued by the natural order of supply and demand. Right now we have seen number one of a vicious one-two punch the economy is fixing to deliver to good Americans everywhere.

There's never been a better time to start a new company. We all know everything that went wrong already, so there's really no need to ruminate on that much. Ruminating won't improve your lot in life either.

Executing a carefully designed plan though, complete with some new features like maybe including some real profit-sharing options, a retirement plan that doesn't rely on the goodwill of others, and a plan to keep a reserve for your employees in times of trouble might just be the best decision you'll make, and even if you don't create such a company, merely joining one will suffice.


For some of you, I'm sure, this is an unplanned detour. Keep your vision of where you wanted to go, and share that with others. People will help you if they can, especially if you can show them a better way. Remember that even if you are the leader, almost 90% of what happens is out of your direct control anyway, So you might as well enjoy the ride, and make it pleasant for others as well.


Economically, my inquiries have been met with the general opinion that the economy will improve (and rapidly too) starting in the 1st quarter of 2009, and will be noticeably better by summer. At least that's what all the execs say I'm speaking with these days, so get out your business surfboards and get ready to ride the cresting wave, Eh!


~GameDaddy
"Managed to attend both Origins and Gencon in 2008! and looking forward to gaming goodness in 2009!"

[burntgerbil]

Yes, wizards dropped the ball. They should have had a TON of peripherals ready 2 - 4 weeks before the core books came out or on release day. Game aids - counters, dice, Power Cards, and more should have been made. It sounds like they are still in the works - don't fault them for that.

Bottom line is : If you like your game and like new things for it, let them know with your wallet. Buy their products. They need that revenue to make more cool things for your game. I know money is tough right now for everyone - but please - purchase the product you want to use to keep them afloat and keep our hobby alive.

[jinnetics]

Originally Posted by Brown Jenkin

So how do we punish them? Should we spend more money on their products, because that seems more like a reward.

Talented workers in all industries are dropping left and right. If you boycott because someone is laying people off, then you won't be a consumer of anything.