layoffs?

[justanobody]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Mea culpa- it wasn't my intent to single you out and attribute that mentality to you.

However, in past (locked) threads about piracy, similar assertions were part of arguments supporting just that.

I don't know or recall any of those threads. I was just saying that it shouldn't be attributed to just piracy as the downfall of the "copy shop".

I know advertising works, and it makes me sad. I have to deal with people daily asking me about ads and such and get sick and tired of telling them "I don't care about silly ads. I buy something based on the products merits, not its hype." It gets rather annoying after the 40th time per day, everyday....

To get back tied to the topic itself and off the borderline economics if we haven't already crossed it without intending deeply to do so...

I would have fired the advertising department before skilled writers or PR people. That was why I brought up advertising. You can advertise something you don't have al day long and find people to "sell iceboxes to eskimos", but you better have enough people to make them iceboxes, or that advertiser ain't getting paid because you have no money coming in. The less you spend on advertising a bad product the more you can spend on quality control and let word of mouth do what it does best....advertise for free.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would have fired the advertising department before skilled writers or PR people.

From my perspective, even though I don't care for 4Ed*, D&D itself is one of those products that should virtually sell itself. It has a huge base of invested consumers, and is the 800lb gorilla in its market niche.

To illustrate- in my case, I pre-ordered the Core 3 as soon as I could. However, as I saw the ad/promo campaign roll out, I was cringing.

1) They went 100% digital with their house magazines, generating some ill-will and mistrust.

2) They declined to renew or in some cases just ended certain licenses, again gaining bad PR.

3) They highlighted which sacred cows they were killing (or delaying)- that may have cost them some sales right there. If they had kept quiet about the slaughter of the sacred cows, they'd probably have seen a 15%+ increase in pre-orders.

4) They announced changes in the OGL that would eventually become the GSL...and then didn't have it ready on day 1 of the product rollout. How that was received is well documented.

5) On top of that, WotC's track record with the electronic/programming side of gaming didn't inspire any confidence, so claims about the digital initiative were met with a lot of skepticism.

Its almost like they were trying to fail. It was both bad marketing and PR.

Developers, though, IMOH, should have been kept on.

*Its a well designed product, but its not what I want from D&D.

[justanobody]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

*Its a well designed product, but its not what I want from D&D.

I don't think I disagree with a single thing you said in that post.

EDIT: Except the PR part about Solice the Forum Manager that had to clean up after Gamer_zer0, and got fired for cleaning up his mess.

[xechnao]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Re Chicago School:

Read the article, and you'll find this quote: "The University of Chicago department, widely considered one of the world’s foremost economics departments, has fielded more Nobel Prize winners and John Bates Clark medalists in economics than any other university."

They're neoclassical- meaning generally they favor a hands off approach to economic policy. IOW, not truly politicized. That kind of theoretical approach would also not impact the empirical sales data that pops up in the majority of RW studies.

Nobel prizes in economics are more political (read propaganda) than any other prize of the scientific fields. The awards have less to do with the development of universally practical and applied endeavours and sometimes a lot about theoric structures that are totaly irrelevant with the real effects of economy. This is because while nowadays economy is the driving and guiding force behind scientific development, it is not a science by itself (even if it is proclaimed to be) because in economy you do not have a rigorous goal but rather a policy of adjustment dictated by ecologic AND SOCIAL dynamics.

[Maggan]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

It was both bad marketing and PR.

Interestingly enough most of those points would not have been under the control of the marketing department.

Marketing works with what they are given as much as any other department. If they are given lemons, they'll try to make lemonade, but they sure ain't gonna start handing out delicious cake and champagne.

I think WotC could have done a lot better for the marketing for D&D, but I'm not so sure that marketing people themselves are the chief suspects here.

Admittedly, being in marketing myself I must admit some bias.

/M

[joethelawyer]

Originally Posted by xechnao

Nobel prizes in economics are more political (read propaganda) than any other prize of the scientific fields. The awards have less to do with the development of universally practical and applied endeavours and sometimes a lot about theoric structures that are totaly irrelevant with the real effects of economy. This is because while nowadays economy is the driving and guiding force behind scientific development, it is not a science by itself (even if it is proclaimed to be) because in economy you do not have a rigorous goal but rather a policy of adjustment dictated by ecologic AND SOCIAL dynamics.

if i can i will give xp for that. nicely put.

[Delta]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

They're neoclassical- meaning generally they favor a hands off approach to economic policy. IOW, not truly politicized. That kind of theoretical approach would also not impact the empirical sales data that pops up in the majority of RW studies...

This makes me laugh- historically, Chilean, Iraqi and Russian economic practices have virtually ZERO to do with free market capitalism in the Chicago School style.

I'm sure you have your opinions, but what you're saying doesn't line up with what I read anywhere else.

Chicago School categorized as Neoliberal -- Chicago school of economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Chicago School involved in Washington Concensus -- Washington Consensus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chicago Boys, 25 Chilean ministers trained under Milton Friedman -- Chicago Boys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TheGM]

Originally Posted by joethelawyer

if i can i will give xp for that. nicely put.

If he had applied it to all Nobel prizes and not just economics, I would too. Sadly some still think the Nobel prize has the authority it did in the days when Solzhenitsyn won one, and that just isn't true.

Don.

[Plane Sailing]

It seems this has devolved into politics rather than the initial response to the layoffs, even after Rel's warning, so I'm closing this down.

Clunk.