layoffs?

[gribble]

First, I just want to give my condolences and best wishes to those laid off.

Originally Posted by Zaruthustran

But let's not compound the suckiness by drawing sensational conclusions from what is simply a normal business practice.

Second, I have to disagree with this one. Mass hiring/layoff of staff is not normal business practice by any stretch of the imagination. A well run business will have a good handle on both it's current and future work, and maintain a level of staff which is sufficient to meet that work, given normal staff turnover. Temporary spikes should (for the most part) be able to be met by tightening the belt in other areas, dipping into cash reserves, or utilising temporary (contract) staff. Sure, unexpected events can happen (although in the better run companies even a lot of these "unexpected" events can be forecast or at least catered for), but IMO any company that regularly goes through these boom and bust cycles is poorly run.

Does this necessarily mean doom and gloom? No, but lets not put our heads in the sand and pretend this is just part of the normal day-to-day activities of a well run company... at the very least WotC seems to have some very shoddy senior management.

[RefinedBean]

Just a quick note: Although layoffs always suck at this time of year, they're definitely nothing new for WotC or, well, the rest of America. Budgets turn over in December/January for many companies, thus necessitating layoffs and other cost-cutting procedures.

We also don't know whether or not WotC is giving their former staff full holiday bonuses.

And as Umbran wisely mentioned, the economy is a big factor. Everyone's hurting, and unfortunately bad things happen to good people.

Thankfully, gaming as an industry is tight-knit. We help our own how we can. Plenty of other people are getting laid off that aren't receiving comfort and kind words from thousands of fans worldwide.

Not calling anyone out or anything, but let's all keep perspective, hrm?

[FreeXenon]

Wow! Totally teh Suxors!

I am surprised to see Dave and John go. The others I am not familiar with. I wish all of you good luck and hopefully you will still have a great holiday.

[RefinedBean]

Originally Posted by gribble

Does this necessarily mean doom and gloom? No, but lets not put our heads in the sand and pretend this is just part of the normal day-to-day activities of a well run company... at the very least WotC seems to have some very shoddy senior management.

It's not "putting our heads in the sand." It's saying that since we don't work there and have no clue what's been going on with the company financially or otherwise, we shouldn't make any conclusions that we can't back up.

Conclusions like "...at the very least WotC seems to have some very shoddy senior management." This statement doesn't help anyone, and just fuels a fire that shouldn't have been lit in the first place.

[Fifth Element]

Originally Posted by gribble

Mass hiring/layoff of staff is not normal business practice by any stretch of the imagination. A well run business will have a good handle on both it's current and future work, and maintain a level of staff which is sufficient to meet that work, given normal staff turnover.

It's not necessarily that simple. To use an extreme example, I'm sure H&R Block hires a pile of people in December/January, and lays off a pile of people in May. Every year. Some businesses do not need a constant staffing level.

Developing a new edition requires far more work than a regular publishing schedule. Layoffs are de rigueur shortly after a new edition release, because staff was built up beforehand to develop the new edition.

I just think it's simplistic to suggest that a "well-run business" should not have layoffs. It's more complicated than that.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by RefinedBean

This statement doesn't help anyone, and just fuels a fire that shouldn't have been lit in the first place.

Sorry, not meaning to inflame anything. I just wanted to point out that saying "it's normal business practice, and to be expected given the economic climate" doesn't really excuse it as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe I'll turn it around and put it another way: I'm glad I work for a well run company, with excellent senior management who saw the financial crisis coming and tightened their belts early. Now, despite the downturn, it's unlikely we're going to have to make any layoffs (and, in fact, we've been able to make a big christmas donation to a couple of local children's hospitals). My best wishes go out to those who aren't so fortunate.

[mlund]

Here's just hoping the folks that have been let go received good severance packages. That makes all the difference between a brutal firing for Christmas and getting to spend the holidays with your family while making a job transition.

I'm not really shocked though. Changes need to be in place with the first quarter of 2009 starts. Businesses, products, and workers compete earnestly to continue to advance the marketplace. The only way that competition is truly earnest is if there are lay-offs, terminations of product lines, and even failures of entire companies. That's how change that leads to long-term progress usually happens. It shouldn't be personal, except in helping the individual employee make a smooth transition into the next stage of his or her career.

- Marty Lund

[RefinedBean]

Originally Posted by gribble

Sorry, not meaning to inflame anything. I just wanted to point out that saying "it's normal business practice, and to be expected given the economic climate" doesn't really excuse it as far as I'm concerned.

's cool, buddy. It would be nice to know the full story, and I'm sure we'll have a better idea of what went down after a few months. As Fifth Element mentioned, though, sometimes companies have to do what they must.

Also, good on your company for the charitable donations and belt-tightening.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Fifth Element

I just think it's simplistic to suggest that a "well-run business" should not have layoffs. It's more complicated than that.

Actually, that's exactly my point. I'm pretty sure that H&R Block don't hire and then lay off a large number of permanent staff, if that's their business model. They'd use seasonal or short-term staff for their busy period (if they're sensible).

Trust me, I understand - I work in computer software, and in our business it's par for the course to have big spikes due to product releases. A well run business will meet those spikes by using contract staff. You could say it's all in semantics, but at least with contract staff there is an understanding by both parties that the employment is only short term (often only for a specific project).

[Fifth Element]

Originally Posted by gribble

I'm glad I work for a well run company, with excellent senior management who saw the financial crisis coming and tightened their belts early. Now, despite the downturn, it's unlikely we're going to have to make any layoffs (and, in fact, we've been able to make a big christmas donation to a couple of local children's hospitals).

What you're missing is that these layoffs are likely not 100% due to the economic conditions. Historically, new edition releases have been followed by layoffs. They are probably greater due to the economy, but it's very simplistic to assume these layoffs could have been avoided if the company was "well run".

[Mike Selinker]

Originally Posted by Monte At Home

let me just add that it's hard not to laugh at the shocking and perhaps pitiable ineptitude of a company that makes role playing games that would lay off Jonathan Tweet, very likely the best rpg designer, well, period.

What Monte said. JoT hired me and many of the people who get thought of as the intellectual core of Wizards back in the day. He figured out how to revitalize D&D with an approach based on rationality and flexibility. And he'll do that for something else somewhere else, because he's the best game designer in America.

Mike

[Dumnbunny]

Originally Posted by gribble

Second, I have to disagree with this one. Mass hiring/layoff of staff is not normal business practice by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, I spent about a decade working for [global mega-corporation], and my observations there and with the dozens of large corporations I worked with as clients, I have to say that layoffs are indeed normal.

For example, in my time at [global mega-corporation] I saw four waves of layoffs happen that effected my group, in addition to many others that effected other groups in other countries. Usually what would happen is the bean-counters would decide that each group across the country had to lose x% off their payroll to improve the financial reports for that quarter. Even groups that were performing above expectations would lose that x%.

Sure, they could tighten their belts in other areas, dip into financial reserves, etc. However, the problem is the perceptions that layoffs happen when a company is losing money. Sure, mass layoffs can happen then, but often the layoffs will happen when a company is making a profit, but isn't as profitable as they had projected. Dipping into cash reserves and other measures won't address this, but cutting payroll will. It will improve with quarterly reports, and Wall Street will reward them with higher share values.

Maybe this isn't the way it should be. I don't have an MBA, so I'll withhold comment on whether or not this is a smart way to do business. But from my observations, this is the way it is for a large number of corporations.

Hell, just google hasbro layoffs 2008 and you'll see that WotC isn't the first Hasbro unit to get hit.

[Fifth Element]

Originally Posted by gribble

Actually, that's exactly my point. I'm pretty sure that H&R Block don't hire and then lay off a large number of permanent staff, if that's their business model. They'd use seasonal or short-term staff for their busy period (if they're sensible).

What's the difference between using seasonal workers, and hiring/laying off staff, other than the words used? In fact, when seasonal workers are done their season, the term used when you let them go is "laid off". Now seasonal work is more predictable as to when you'll start and when you'll be laid off, but there's little practical difference.

Originally Posted by gribble

Trust me, I understand - I work in computer software, and in our business it's par for the course to have big spikes due to product releases. A well run business will meet those spikes by using contract staff.

So you mean freelancers, which WotC will be using more of now? That is their business model, as I understand it. Developing a new edition is done with a full-time staff, due to the commitment required (and probably also due to confidentiality concerns), while the supplement mill relies more on freelancers.

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Fifth Element

What you're missing is that these layoffs are likely not 100% due to the economic conditions. Historically, new edition releases have been followed by layoffs. They are probably greater due to the economy, but it's very simplistic to assume these layoffs could have been avoided if the company was "well run".

Not at all. That's exactly what I'm saying - it's more than likely (in fact, I'd say it's a given, with WotC's track record) that these layoffs aren't 100% due to the economy.

That, IME, implies that the company isn't well run. Companies who have a pattern of mass hirings/layoffs which match boom/bust cycles in their business aren't doing things right. Not only does it create ill-will towards and within the company (the less quantifiable effect), it's also a lot more costly and inefficient than hiring temporary staff and/or tightening the belt in other areas.

Well run companies can deliver cyclic services and products without requiring mass hiring/layoff of permanent staff. I know because I've seen it done, and currently work for a well run company that manages to do it even in the current economic climate.

[Friadoc]

Originally Posted by gribble

Actually, that's exactly my point. I'm pretty sure that H&R Block don't hire and then lay off a large number of permanent staff, if that's their business model. They'd use seasonal or short-term staff for their busy period (if they're sensible).

Trust me, I understand - I work in computer software, and in our business it's par for the course to have big spikes due to product releases. A well run business will meet those spikes by using contract staff. You could say it's all in semantics, but at least with contract staff there is an understanding by both parties that the employment is only short term (often only for a specific project).

Nice point, Gribble. Plus, when you have an employment model that has seasonal layoffs as a known option, such as construction or manufacturing, it is stated often and early, with warnings as the yearly purge happens, with promises of binging at the turn of the year.

Good business models avoid layoffs, as much as they can, as it shows a strong demand for their services and products, instead of a fluctuating demand for it. When I was hired at Micron Technologies, back in late-Spring 2006, a big deal was made about how they had only had to layoff once in their history and that they were a stable employer, although they have laid off folk since, more than once, be it due to the market or other reasons within management.

While it is a reasonable option, workforce reduction/layoff, it is something that you come to when you cannot avoid it and is, generally, not something you should work into your longterm planning, at least without the employees knowing it. Although most of us on here are in no way exposed to the inner workings of Wizards of the Coast, or their parent company, there are some assumptions that are obvious and okay to make, they just do not need to be mean spirited, nasty, or like throwing gasoline in a fire in a crowded theater.

[joethelawyer]

Darrin, Monte, or anyone who knows how WOTC operates, do you know if it is their standard operating procedure to have employees sign some sort of non-compete agreement either as a part of their employment, or as a condition for a larger severance package? Just wondering about these guys' ability to work in the industry in the foreseeable future.

[Dragonklaw82]

I know its already been said, but let me extend my sincerest condolences. D&D has been an important part of my life for a long time now. It has been a great comfort to me when I was sad, and it has been the centerpiece which brings my friends and I together, even though we live in different corners of the country. It has given me many, many fond memories, and all of it was, in part, because of the work of these individuals. Thank you so much for the impact your work has had on my life. I wish you many blessings to come in yours.

- Nick Laney

[gribble]

Originally Posted by Dumnbunny

Well, I spent about a decade working for [global mega-corporation], and my observations there and with the dozens of large corporations I worked with as clients, I have to say that layoffs are indeed normal.

Unfortunately the size of a company does not equate to how well it is run (currently).

Even the worst run company can grow very quickly if it has a successful product or service, and in fact it's often these sorts of companies that easily fall into the boom and bust cycle - quickly hiring too many staff to meet a current need, and then equally quickly laying them off once the current needs disappears.

I'm not saying that well run companies *never* lay off staff, sometimes even the best companies are surprised. What I'm saying is that they don't fall into a regular cycle of hiring and laying off staff as their workload ramps up and down. And (to bring things back on topic...), this is what WotC seems to be doing.

[Fifth Element]

Originally Posted by gribble

Not at all. That's exactly what I'm saying - it's more than likely (in fact, I'd say it's a given, with WotC's track record) that these layoffs aren't 100% due to the economy.

That, IME, implies that the company isn't well run. Companies who have a pattern of mass hirings/layoffs which match boom/bust cycles in their business aren't doing things right.

(Emphasis added)

This is the part I'm saying is too simplistic. You are assuming that all companies in all industries should have business models that avoid layoffs. That is far too simplistic to be realistic.

Trust me, I have a degree in business management.

You say your own business fills in holes with contractors. There are a multitude of possible reasons why this wouldn't work for WotC's business. They use contractors (freelancers), but not for the development of a new edition. I can see why they would avoid freelancers for that.

[firesnakearies]

Man, that's terrible. Those are some really top-notch names in recent D&D history.

So my question to Mr. Tweet and Mr. Noonan is this:

Where can I make my Paypal payment to pre-order your upcoming releases from your new third-party publishing company?