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*Nods* Mining books for ideas is always good. Lol, I have to admit the only one constant I think I ever have when it comes to dragging something directly from D&D canon into my planes is Sigil :P Everything else is give or take, one setting Astral Sea exists the next Mechanus exists, etc.
I have this idea. Lets do for all Editions what WotC has done for 4e. Let's build a brand new cosmology, from scratch, that is usable for any version of D&D.
Personally, I'm with Fallen Seraph on the idea that in any new cosmology, Sigil should exist in one form or another. It doesn't have to be the Sigil of Planescape, however, and maybe that's the best way to redesign the planes in a brand new way.
So, lets build something completely new. All ideas are good. We need to wrack our brains and really try to come up with something unique. I know that's a tough concept but if WotC can build a new core cosmology then why can't we build a new "alternate" core cosmology.
Here we go...
1... 2... 3... BRAINSTORMING.
__________________ Time to sleep.
__________________ Robert Blezard I write; therefore, I am!
D&D v.3.5, d20 Modern, OSRIC, Pathfinder, True20... OGL Forever! Walk the Road
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Just to add too, I also agree Sigil doesn't have to be same as canon Sigil. None of mine are that strict (it is more the atmosphere I concentrate extremely hard on maintaining).
Hmm... I think some idea of what has generally stayed constant in D&D be a good idea (then I'll go crazy with one of my cosmologies) which others can build upon to get going:
-Generally there is some manner of "mortal world"
-Some manner of place(s) where the Gods reside
-Some manner of place(s) for demons and devils.
I think generally when it comes to D&D cosmology and creatures. "Mortal World" monsters/beings, Gods and Demons and Devils seem to be the most constant things that exist and seek out somekind of own place in the cosmology.
Now to throw in some craziness. I am just gonna chuck in one of my cosmologies I made (combining elements of 4e with my own stuff just to see what people think/can take from it) some may dislike the history of the Lady of Pain, but it should be noted that only I as setting creator would know this not the players:
Spoiler:
There was once a large-pantheon of Gods (none of specific things, just Gods and Goddesses ruling over a vast cosmology of planes, and natural worlds).
A war broke out amongst the Gods, as even the Gods are liable to grow frustrated and angry at eachother. This war was unlike anything seen before; whole planes were broken, worlds crumbled and Gods died.
Some of the Gods saw in this war, the end of the universe. So they created the artificial-Worlds and their god-machine maintainers. Each World was a duplicate of a real world, either lost or soon to be lost to the war, all life on the World was frozen in time.
The Gods believed that in-time the war would end and they could bring about a new time for the creatures they ruled over. This did not come to pass, and the Worlds remained; till they began to breakdown, be infiltrated or grow into their own unique Worlds.
The Abyss, Angels and Lloth, Lady of Pain and Morrigan are remnants of the war.
The Angels are the descendants of the Gods' Celestials, though without the guidance of the Gods they soon grew into their own nefarious race.
Lloth, Lady of Pain and Morrigan were the daughters of one of the Gods and they were heavily affected by the war.
Lloth soon became corrupt and the Gods including her parents tore down her power and in doing so formed the Abyss. They created the defenses that now guard it as a final point.
The Lady of Pain grief-striken by the lost of life, and disgusted by her fellow Gods fled. Soon after the death of the other Gods, she created Sigil as a place where only mortals tread, and no Gods.
Morrigan unlike her sister, found the death and chaos fascinating. She soon grew to revel in the possibilities and aspects of death. Which is why she searched out the Fates; to learn their secrets of death and took up her home in the Shadowfell.
Some who know of the war, believe the Fates twisted the destinies of the Gods to create this war. It is believed it was to bring about the dawn of mortal rule and they even now string the destinies of mortals towards some unknown end.
I may post more elements I have brainstormed for different cosmologies as they re-collect in my head. This luckily was written down on a forum a while back, so was able to find it.
How are these gods going to function? Are they going to be like 4th in that they take little part of the world/universe such as when the Gods "left" Krynn? Or will these gods be taking direct part in the day to day life of the worlds?
From here it will be easier to figure out if alignment will be important, or jsut window dressing on the gods, and what functions each of the perform.
Also what will this cosmology entail? Will it allow for gods of day and night, or be more focused ideas like Roman or Greek/etc gods of War, Love, etc?
From here it will be easier to figure out if alignment will be important, or jsut window dressing on the gods, and what functions each of the perform.
Also what will this cosmology entail? Will it allow for gods of day and night, or be more focused ideas like Roman or Greek/etc gods of War, Love, etc?
Alignment (i.e belief) is a big deal in the Great Wheel cosmology so why don't we try something different.
And the cosmology should allow for any pantheon to be placed within it as the primary pantheon. Other unaligned gods, celestials, and fiends would also have a place.
I was thinking about using the same format as done for Freeport. In the creation of the cosmology, we would only refer to the gods as God of War, God of Elves, God of Nature, God of Seas, etc.
Therefore, each individual DM can use whatever pantheon they want.
Anyway, just an idea.
__________________ Robert Blezard I write; therefore, I am!
D&D v.3.5, d20 Modern, OSRIC, Pathfinder, True20... OGL Forever! Walk the Road
Avatar by Sialia
I had some strange ideas about the "layout" of the planes for a new cosmology...
The first idea came to me when looking at my tiled bathroom floor. Basically, the cosmology is made up of tiled planes that interlock together. In an ordered universe, the tiles would be all the same shape while a disordered version would have tiles of many types of shapes that don't always fit together. In places where there are gaps, characters can literally fall into a void of nothingness. At the center of this cosmology, a grand city would be the hub of the universe, which could be Sigil (and it's spire) but it could just as easily be the City of Brass, Greyhawk, Ptolus, Union, or some other famous RPG city.
The second idea came to me while looking in the mirrior. I had on my "Lucky 13" t-shirt, which has a skull and crossbones graphic on it. I call this idea the skull cosmology. The planes exist on the skull of some primordial first god. The teeth of the skull are the mortal realms while the eyesockets lead to the realms of the gods, which exist on the inside of the skull. Other various planes exist on the other parts of the skull.
The third idea is the strangest. Imagine a universe that exists within a kitchen sink. Everything possible exists in this universe. The planes cover the inside of the sink and every once in a while the Great Spout gushes forth washing away the planes closest to the drain. There would be a lot of airships and spelljammers in this universe. And there would be cults dedicated to plugging the drain so that the Great Spout washes away everything. Heh.
__________________ Robert Blezard I write; therefore, I am!
D&D v.3.5, d20 Modern, OSRIC, Pathfinder, True20... OGL Forever! Walk the Road
Avatar by Sialia
What I know of "Freeport" is that the fishing is Great and is is a mixed Human and Half-elf city in EverQuest. Also vials of goblin blood from near the docks is worth a good bit of platinum.
So, lets build something completely new. All ideas are good. We need to wrack our brains and really try to come up with something unique.
I like the idea of this, but I want to make one suggestion: Design the cosmology so that it matters to the characters at all levels.
I suspect most players couldn't care less about cosmology because it doesn't really matter to their characters, or if it does, it only matters when their high-level and capable of traveling the planes. Yet some of the best fantasy stories I've read have a cosmology that matters to the story, that adds a unique and interesting element. A new cosmology needs this.
So you might start by asking certain questions:
*Where do familiars come from? I really like Monte Cook's idea of "virtual" familiars, ala Golden Compass.
*Along the same lines, how about summoned creatures? Are they real, or "virtual"? If real, should a caster perform a ceremony of some sort to bind the creature to service? If so, what is offered to the creature, whether as carrot or stick? What are the consequences? (Something I did for my players years ago was based on a Dragon article, where they always summoned the same celestial creatures, who had individual personalities. They really seemed to like that element in what was otherwise just another combat spell.)
*Demons, devils, daemons, etc. Do they exist? If so, why? To what purpose? Can they travel between planes, and if so, how? Do they need help to enter our world? If so, who helps them and why? Is sacrificing an unwilling vicitm sufficient, or must the sacrifice come from the devotee (say, their first born)?
*Can people travel to other planes? If so, how difficult is it? How common? What's required - special site, ritual, time? Is such joining of planes feared? If so, can it be blocked by magical or mundane means, and if so, how can such blocks be bypassed?
Many of these questions touch more on campaign design than cosmology design, but it seems to me a good cosmology will automatically lead to such questions. If at the end of the day the cosmology has no significant impact on the campaign, it's mostly wasted effort. The effort might be enjoyable for its own sake, just not terribly useful.
"They say that Carceri is the prison of the Gods.
Every world is the prison of gods and mortals alike.
They say that Sigil connects to every world.
This is true.
For Sigil is the true prison of gods and men.
All of us, we live within the Cage
Trapped in the domain of the Lady of Pain,
Who fears neither god nor mortal
And can be bested by neither,
For we exist as her playthings.
For she is Suffering Incarnate,
She is Samsara
And Suffering is beyond the power
Of Gods and Men,
Of Primordials and Demons,
Of Devils and Angels,
To bring to an end.
Or say they say.
But I say to you,
That One Who Walks the Nine-Fold Path
May Escape the Wheel of Rebirth
And Finally Put an End
To the Cruel Mistress of Sigil
To Samsara itself.
And then all will be free."
The Final Words of the Blind Prophetess Mari,
Before she died the Death of Dust
On the Streets of Sigil,
Year of Our Lady of Pain 375,874.
The world is a prison and a wheel, a wheel of rebirth. The city of Sigil is the focal point of creation; it somehow both surrounds and imprisons the world yet at the same time it is found at the very center, at the balance point between the realms of increasing joy above it and the realms of increasing sorrow below it. In some manner, it lies beyond the elemental planes which form the inner 'walls' of the birdcage which is reality, yet also inside them at the very center of the universe. It resembles a city built on the inside of a tube which swallows its own tail, a hollowed out donut. Attempts to tunnel out through the ground either result in something killing you or eventually you stumble through a portal into another plane,usually an elemental plane. The normal method, however, of egress, is the system of portals which connect Sigil to every other plane in the universe.
At the very top of creation is the Positive Energy Plane, the plane of total joy and bliss. A joy so total, it rapidly kills most lesser beings through too much happiness. At the very bottom of creation is the Negative Energy plane; it constantly draws down the power of the Positive Energy Plane through all of creation and devours it; unfortunate visitors are unlikely to last long before being devoured. Certain rumors claim that if you descend deep enough, you will get fired out of the Positive Energy Plane, beginning the cycle anew. But no one has ever been PROVEN to survive this.
Inbetween them are a series of planes, growing ever less blissful and more suffering and painful as you move down through all of the universe from the Positive to the Negative Material Plane. 'The Prime Planes', home to Mortals, tend to hover in the middle of reality, sometimes rising or falling during periods of greater hope or despair. Above them are the 'heavens', below them 'the hells'. As you move towards the elemental planes, planes become more purely elemental in nature, but also more attuned to order or chaos, depending on how orderly or chaotic the elemental plane you are moving towards.
The Astral Plane is a collection of rivers and oceans which flow out of the Positive Material Plane down through the Heavens and the Primes down to the Hells and finally cascade into the Negative Material Plane; it grows more and more dangerous as you move from the higher to lower planes, increasingly beset with hazards and monsters and finally plunging off deadly waterfalls into the Great Nothing.
Souls reincarnate according to Karma; those who do good rise upwards; those who do evil sink downwards. Those who are more orderly move towards the orderly elements; those who are more chaotic move towards the chaotic ones. Those born into higher or lower planes may be born into the ranks of the Celestials or the Infernals; those more orderly or chaotic may eventually become Modrons or Slaad or other similar beings.
The Gods themselves and the Demon Princes and Archdevils all were once mortal and moved up and down the ladder by their actions in many lives...or by finding shortcuts.
The Gods try to help mortals move up towards the Positive Plane and have easy access to power from it; thus they need not feed on mortal souls. The Demon Lords, etc, are far from that life giving power and thus must tempt and take mortals in order to find sustenance and sources of spiritual power to prevent their realms totally falling into the Negative Plane and being destroyed.
It is said that the purest souls will eventually join with the Positive Plane; the wickedest will be devoured by the Negative Plane.
The Primordials are ancient beings of unknown provenance; even they are not sure of their own origins. Some rumors claim that the Lady of Pain stole their power and memories and trapped them inside her cage, thus making herself the ruler of Creation. This may be true or they may just be another group of Gods or Demons with delusions of Grandeur.
Indeed, there's reason enough to believe some of the Demon Lords and Archdevils and Yugoloth Lords, etc etc were once Gods and some of the Gods may once have been Demons, who changed their ways, sinking down below or rising up. Certainly Asmodeus himself is said to have once been a mighty divine servant of a god who he betrayed and murdered, only to find when he usurped the realm, it plummeted from the heavens into the depths of the hells, corrupting him and all his servants to their current state.
Most are content to play out their lives in the ongoing struggles of law vs. chaos, good vs. evil. Some look to larger prizes, to rise to the ranks of Celestials or even to Godhood.
But a few, a precious few realize that all of existence, all this struggling, is futile so long as the Lady of Pain stands above creation, watching it dance for her amusement. All the suffering of a billion trillion worlds exists because that's how she likes it. They seek some way to escape, to strike her down, to crack open the Cage and be FREE.
The world is a gamble against fate, and the dealer always wins. Unless you find some way to take over the casino or at least escape it. If there is a way, then bold adventurers will be the ones to find it.
Or perhaps die in the attempt.
But it's better than living and dying as rats in a cage, right?
Adventuring in this Cosmology:
Every world determines its nature by the actions of its inhabitants. Every good deed PCs do in the mortal plane of their origin moves it away from the hells and towards the heavens, making life better. Or they might move it towards law or chaos, etc, etc. In other words, the PCs can have a strong impact on the cosmology. Further, unlike standard Planescape where those travelling the planes consider the primes largely home to lackwits, mortal planes may well take on great importance and certainly be worth championing.
One can easily run straight prime plane adventures where it is mainly religion which is affected, planar adventures of the struggle of good and evil and law and chaos or even campaigns with the ultimate goal of breaking the Cage and overthrowing the rule of the Lady of Sigil, so that creation might finally be free to write its own ending instead of dancing for her amusement.
They seek some way to escape, to strike her down, to crack open the Cage and be FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Student Council
If the egg's shell does not break,..... the chick will die without being born. We are the chick; the egg is the world. If the world's shell does not break, we will die without being born. Break the world's shell! For the sake of revolutionizing the world!
Heh. I like it.
__________________ "People need vision.
Sometimes you just have to add spices without a recipie."
- My wonderful wife.
At the beginning of time, there was the sun. Surrounding the sun was the eternal darkness, and between the two was naught but ether.
But eon after eon, the darkness encroached. Soon the ether would be gone, and the sun would be smothered. So the sun cast out thousands of stars--shining globes, each containing a small part of the sun's radiance. Together, the stars formed the Astral Sphere--the barrier that keeps the darkness at bay to this day. But ten of those stars were imbued with more that just radiance--each one had absorbed one or more facets of the sun's personality--These stars went of course, becoming 'Wanderers' (Planets, in the ancient tongue). And each planet brought forth a being of great power to rule over it--thus were the great gods born.
The burning skies of Mercury are home to the Angels--beings of great power with wings of fire who act as servants and messengers of the Sun. The chief of the angels is Enoch the Scribe, Mercury's resident God
The lush forests of Venus are home to Queen Medb and her Faerie subjects. The Faerie Folk delight in worldly pleasures--And their gossamer wings are strong enough to take them through the ether to nearby Earth.
Earth was once ruled by the nature goddess Gaia, but she was cruelly murdered by the traitor god. Still, the humans and other creatures with which she populated the world remain strong and able--and without a ruling goddess, they are free to find their own destiny.
When the lord of Uranus traveled to earth to woo Gaia, he brought with him one of brightest stars plucked from the Astral Sphere. And when Tsukuyama was born from their union, his mother gave him the star--dubbed 'moon'--to rule as his own domain. The humans who live on the moon are strange in their way to those accustomed to earth-But their Samurai are a match for any Earth knight, and their Wu Jen can stand against Earthling wizards.
...More to come, but I'm getting pretty sleepy right now.
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He who is the Judge, King, and Lover created the World and gave dominion over its parts to his myriad children. To his favorite child, Aquila, he gave the most potent and beautiful continent in all of creation. Aquilagea, as Aquila's land was known, was attacked by the other peoples of the World and their patrons (Aquila's siblings) because of jealousy.
After a time and in retribution for the invasions, the people of Aquilagea stole the magic of the World and kept it to themselves and their land. With control of magic the people of Aquilagea became corrupt over thousands of years.
Four brave heroes (two dwarf men, a half-orc lady, and a human man) secretly entered Aquilagea and freed magic. To prevent any factions from stealing magic for themself again, the dwarf paladin made a pact with the Creator to take magic out of the world and return in to heaven.
As punishment for their abuses, the Creator demoted his children to be his servants (Archangels). So now there is an Archangel of Magic, an Archangel of Death, etc.
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