Interesting post over at Grognardia today regarding Gail Gygax

[JoeGKushner]

Originally Posted by Mark

I find putting pressure on a widow to be unseemly. As someone without a dog in this, you ought to just knock it off.

You seemed to be speaking for "fans" and I was wondering what your specific window is. If it's ad infinitum and it comes out is one thing. Coming out quicker than it was is another. You ought to just edit your original post for clarity.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by JoeGKushner

You seemed to be speaking for "fans" and I was wondering what your specific window is. If it's ad infinitum and it comes out is one thing. Coming out quicker than it was is another. You ought to just edit your original post for clarity.

You ought to quick while you're behind.

[JoeGKushner]

Originally Posted by Mark

You ought to quick while you're behind.

Indeed. I wish I could quick when I was behind but alas, I don't know how.

[Kishin]

Originally Posted by Treebore

I think we understand this, I know I do. I also understand that Castle Zagyg was finally coming out, being well done, and being profitable, and then they were pulled. Why? I deserve to know that. Why do I have to wait even longer? Will whatever they do next make my current CZ purchases less viable? Will they do new versions of what I have making it necessary for me to buy the new versions if I wish for completeness?

I have a very legitimate reason for wanting to know, grieving widow or not. She's "in the business" now, time to answer to her customers. She has made decisions, so she can explain them, let us know her general plans, let us know if we can support them or not. Keeping me in the dark just angers me and makes me less likely to support anything she does, and I know I am not alone in this. Far from it.

All she has to do is say, "I desire to have Mongoose publish our work under their Flaming Cobra imprint. I am doing this because Mongoose has proven to me to have better market distribution and therefore substantially higher sales than TLG is able to achieve. We own all releases of CZ so far, so they will be released via our Flaming Cobra imprint as hardbacks. (or, Since we don't own all the previously released material we will be doing our own versions for the sake of completeness under one license/imprint.) We hope to have our first Flaming Cobra release available for Gencon 09 (Or Christmas 09, or Summer 2010, whatever).

Thats all she has to do to satisfy me, at least. Grieving widow or not, if she wants to run a business, then she has to run it. Since I have invested over $100.00 into the CZ line I am most definitely owed an explanation. If I am not given one I feel no need to support any new endevours. I already own Gary Gygax's CAstle Zagyg. The original. The one he actually worked on. Anything Gail does is a pale imitation. An interpretation of his notes. She replaced the only person who knew exactly what Gary wanted done.

So if she wants to convince me she is doing Gary Gygax's Castle Zagyg I want to know what she is doing to ensure I am getting as close to the original as possible. Something I have a hard time believing can be done since she replaced the only person who worked closely with Gary on this project. Who heard all the verbal information that was never written down in notes. Who was fully indoctrinated on Gary's vision for this product.

I am interested in Gary Gygax's Castle Zagyg, not a second hand interpretation from his notes. So I want to know how Gail thinks they are going to do this with Gary and Jeff gone. As it looks now they may as well as have anyone write it and call it Castle Zagyg, but it sure isn't going to be Gary's. I would rather just buy a copy of Gary's notes and make my own interpretation. I'm certainly not interested in someone elses. At least with Jeff on the project I knew someone was doing it after having Gary's direct guidance for a few years. Now that is gone too.

This was a heavy blow to the respect I've developed for you over the years I've been reading ENWorld and the two I've been posting, Treebore. The above is not like you -at all- from what I've read in that time.

$100 is not 'an investment', and you're not a shareholder. There is no entitlement here.

You don't know what conversations occurred between Jeff and Gary, or the depth of 'unwritten information' that he was privy to, either. There's a lot of sweeping generalizations and some pretty antagonistic prose there.

As Mark and RC have pointed out, making demands of a widow is an incredibly presumptuous thing for anyone to do. Gary has a lot of devoted fans, this is true, but you have to remember that, folks, no matter what, you're fans, not friends or family. That was her husband. Gail spent a quarter century with the man. I am relatively sure she has a much greater claim on knowledge of his wishes and disposition of his legacy. She certainly doesn't have to answer to people who may have at most, met the man a handful of times at a convention or exchanged a few emails, when she lived a good portion of her life with him.

[The Little Raven]

Originally Posted by Raven Crowking

Although I never met Gary in person, I am glad to read several EN Worlders defending his widow.

I've been a vocal critic of Gary's work and design philosophies, but I cannot stand people insulting or denigrating a newly-made widow because they want to have their way when it comes to his unpublished materials about pretending to be a pretty princess. Anyone who feels that their desire for material to be published by a particular company, written by a particular author, or created for a particular system justifies the way some vocal fans have been treating Gail don't deserve a single thing Gygax wrote. I'm sure the man himself would be disgusted with the way some of these self-appointed protectors of his legacy are behaving towards the woman he chose to spend the rest of his life with.

[darjr]

To those defending, thank you. Many have done it far better than my original bitter screed.

This is a sad and ugly episode in RPG fandom.

[Raven Crowking]

Originally Posted by darjr

To those defending, thank you. Many have done it far better than my original bitter screed.

This is a sad and ugly episode in RPG fandom.

Everyone has days where they say things that they later regret.

I think that if it were Gary who had survived, and was trying to decide what direction to go in after his wife had died, there would be fewer harsh words. Not because it is in any way different, but because we feel like we knew the man to some degree, and it is therefore easier to see the human element.

So, while we should support Ms. Gygax, I wouldn't be too hasty to villify those who don't see the personal side right now. I urge you to consider the body of their posts, not just what you don't like in the here and now, because these are people I truly respect.


RC

[JohnRTroy]

While the posts here don't bother me, what gets me a little upset is seeing certain fans praise Gary in their own on-line tributes, and then elsewhere call Gail a "money-grubber". I've seen one person on a message board who did just that.

(I think the Grognardia piece was actually a more dispassionate analysis and I wasn't as offended as I am with some of the other arguments).

As far as money goes, well, I think Gary made no secret he was living on borrowed time. Fans had to at least be aware of the risk that this could be an unfinished project.

I knew Gary pretty well, being a friend for quite a long time. Since all this Internet chatter has happened since the "pulling of the licenses", I'm feeling sad since I miss him and corresponded with him a lot, having recently stayed over his house last November for half a week--away from any "convention season".

I can only imagine how Gail is taking it right now.

This was the second to last letter Gary wrote to me--I had asked him some questions about non-gaming stuff, and he wrote this back...it was on February 5th.

Greetings JRT,

Am really in lousy shape.

That's about the sum of my communications energy at this time +_+

Thanks be to the Good Lord Gail is here to take care of me!

Cheers,
Gary

Read that third line again. I know I'll never forget it...

[Obryn]

Originally Posted by JoeGKushner

You seemed to be speaking for "fans" and I was wondering what your specific window is. If it's ad infinitum and it comes out is one thing. Coming out quicker than it was is another. You ought to just edit your original post for clarity.

So you're asking for a hard number, or perhaps a mathematical formula, on how long grief should last before you start badgering a relatively new widow after being married over 25 years? Make a table, roll 1d20.

1-20: Stop being a jerk.

Or, you know, try to have some empathy.

-O

[darjr]

Originally Posted by Raven Crowking

I urge you to consider the body of their posts, not just what you don't like in the here and now, because these are people I truly respect.

In part, this makes it worse than it would otherwise be. If it wasn't as you say, I could just shake my head and move on, ignoring it.

[The Little Raven]

Originally Posted by Raven Crowking

So, while we should support Ms. Gygax, I wouldn't be too hasty to villify those who don't see the personal side right now. I urge you to consider the body of their posts, not just what you don't like in the here and now, because these are people I truly respect.

If they can't see the personal side of a 25-year wife coping with how to deal with her husband's legacy less than a year after dealing with his death, then they don't earn my respect, but earn my pity for their lack of empathy.

[Umbran]

Mark, JoeG, all of you.

Cut it out. Really. On this topic, in the holiday season? Show some decorum and respect, for the subject matter, and each other.

If you cannot be better than this... well, then you really aren't better than this. True colors time, gentlemen.

And I hope I am not incorrect to use that term. If I am - consider this your only warning.

[JoeGKushner]

Originally Posted by Obryn

So you're asking for a hard number, or perhaps a mathematical formula, on how long grief should last before you start badgering a relatively new widow after being married over 25 years? Make a table, roll 1d20.

1-20: Stop being a jerk.

Or, you know, try to have some empathy.

-O

I'm asking his opinion as to when he would expect a product to come out. This is based on HIM saying that it will be coming out sooner and thus being what the fans expect.

[grodog]

Originally Posted by Ranger REG

Meh. When it comes to RPG products, I'd rather they do a thorough job even if it takes years, over getting a half-assed rushed job product just because one has to meet a deadline and actually worth no more than a dime than its current sticker price.

I agree completely: I never said to rush any product vs. producing a quality product. I was merely saying that whenever we're able to have a date for when we'll know more (a communication date for a date, not a product date for a date), that that info may help to calm some of the general discontent.

Originally Posted by Ranger REG

Regardless if the material existed, perhaps still in note forms, that's up to Gail to do with her husband's stuff, the stuff she inherited upon his death.

That's a given, and from my interaction with Gail at and after Gary's funeral, I'd certainly say that she's got his best interests at heart, and has a heart-felt appreciation for Gary's fans that the limited communications from Gygax Games to date don't really convey.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by JohnRTroy

(I think the Grognardia piece was actually a more dispassionate analysis and I wasn't as offended as I am with some of the other arguments).

If anyone has interpreted my original post as being anything other than trying to piece together what we know about the situation and what it means, they've gravely misunderstood what I wrote. Indeed, if anything, the whole point of my piece was that Mrs Gygax did the right thing by addressing, even obliquely, to the rumors swirling about regarding the recent actions of Gygax Games. I think this speaks well of her and bodes well for the likely disposition of Gary's gaming legacy.