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Kind of sounds like the ransom model used by Reign's creator but the contributors are much more involved in the process.
So let me get this right. Basically, after he reaches a certain threshhold of donations that he setup, he will start to work on the project. The contributors will have varying amount of access to the creation process depending on how much money they contributed to the project. The project is finished when the majority are satisfied with the final product.
It is an interesting model and with the economy right now as well as the state of the rpg industry, it could potentially be a better business model for some writers.
If I didn't take a break from D&D, it would have piqued my interest to participate just for the experience.
That's almost right. Wolfgang is the one who decides when the project is finished - since all of the OD projects have ended up being much longer than they were supposed to be no one's complained so far
Books used last session Black Horse Parsantium campaign: 4e core rules, Player's Handbook 2 (invoker), Adventurer's Vault, Wrath of the River King. Dulwich Parsantium campaign: 4e core rules, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (genasi, swordmage), Players' Handbook 2 (barbarian), Dragon (Playing Gnolls), Sellswords of Punjar (the adventure) Lands of Intrigue: 3.5 core rules, Arcana Evolved (unfettered), Ptolus, Spell Compendium, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, The Banewarrens (the adventure), Book of Nine Swords (Desert Wind), Monster Manual V (demons)
So I was correct: $30 buys you the privilege to see the end product.
And the ability to see the design process and other insider bits. Each project also tends to have a series of articles about designing adventures that are similar to Dungeoncraft but a bit more "creating a commercial adventure" oriented (not enough that they aren't useful to those of us who have no intention of doing it).
In fact, the ones from Steam & Brass were edited by WotC and presented on their website (a search can find them, probably by searching for Wolfgang's name on the WotC site).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Opal
II do find the concept a bit limiting, as I would have like to have acquired a copy of Steam and Brass and I didn't hear of Wolfgang's project until it was too late.
One of these days I am going to have a gameday (or game weekend) and will try to run Steam & Brass as part of that Gameday.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
That, in my opinion, is a highway robbery bordering on a scam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphimir Míriel
This. Creating artificial scarcity of a completely electronic finished product is a braindead marketing strategy.
Sorry, but there's no way I am buying into this "I will start working into a cool adventure, but only if you pay before seeing it or even reading a review" scheme.
Ya know, if the patronage idea doesn't work for you, that's fine.
But there is no need to be insulting, it just shows ignorance. Baur has plenty of fans who really dig the patronage idea and buy in with full knowledge of how the system works, and they are very happy with the result. Calling this a scam insults not only Baur, but all of his patrons on the various projects.
To be a scam, deception must be involved. There is no deception here at all, just a purchase model you personally don't care for.
Lighten up . . . and don't buy into the next Open Design project. Simple solution.
__________________ Brian Zuber
Proud Member of ENWorld since 2000 (under several lost screen names). Gaming since the mid-80s!
Favorite Settings: Love all of the official settings, Mystara is my nostalgia fave! Trying to create a homebrew that blends the best elements of the various settings. Favorite Edition: Can't decide between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, like them both!
I haven't participated in one of these yet, but like the patron model and probably will in the future. It seems like taking part in the design process would probably make me a better homebrew adventure designer. Think of it as an adventure writing seminar.
That said, I do wish there was a way for me to buy the old projects. Since the idea of the system is that the Patrons own the finished product, why not sell them and pay the original patrons royalties?
This. Creating artificial scarcity of a completely electronic finished product is a braindead marketing strategy.
Sorry, but there's no way I am buying into this "I will start working into a cool adventure, but only if you pay before seeing it or even reading a review" scheme.
Fame coacta uulpes alta in uinea
uuam adpetebat, summis saliens uiribus.
Quam tangere ut non potuit, discedens ait:
"Nondum matura es; nolo acerbam sumere."
Qui, facere quae non possunt, uerbis eleuant,
adscribere hoc debebunt exemplum sibi.
Since the idea of the system is that the Patrons own the finished product, why not sell them and pay the original patrons royalties?
That's not quite accurate. Wolfgang (and Nic on his) still own the copyrights not the patrons. However, they have agreed to certain conditions on where they will use the copyrighted material.
On example is that Wolfgang has reprinted some bits about his Zobeck world from Steam & Brass in Kobold Quarterly articles. That's legit (IIRC it was an expansion of some steampunkish magic), but reprinting whole sections of the adventure would be a different matter.
__________________ David A. Blizzard
"The only constant I am sure of is this accelerating rate of change" - Downside Up by Peter Gabriel
I must not have been reading every forum close enough and missed the announcement.
Not really. If the project is available to someone as part of the current patronage deal, the review would be really helpful. (I also note that multiple Open Design projects have been ENnie-nominated. The judges must have though they were pretty good. They are unlikely to ever win due to the fewer numbers of patrons.)
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Thanks to Munstrum Ridcully and others for their comments. What I believe is a bad strategy is not selling the product after its finished. For example, a better (IMHO) ransom scheme would be:
Option 1: Pay $100 before the project starts, and get full access, voice and vote on the developing adventure. Get your name into the credits. Get the adventure PDF once it ends.
Option 2: Pay $30 before the project starts, and get full access, voice (but not vote) on the developing adventure. Get the adventure PDF once it ends.
Option 3: Pay $30 after the project ends. Get the adventure PDF
This way, both options 1 and 2 get something more than just the finished product. They become part of the development process and can learn more of how a master DM creates an adventure. The rest of us get a good module on pdf, but nothing else.
And finally, I formally apologize if I came across as rude and insulting. That was not my intention.
__________________ "I am King of the Romans and above the rules of grammar!" - Sigismund, Roman Emperor and my new hero
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The adventures are awesome, and indeed, works of art, and truly patron worthy. Having been a patron for the first 4 projects, it has been an enlightening, engaging and awesome experience. The two adventures I have run and have been running (Shadowcrag, segwaying to the kingdom of ghouls) have gotten nothing but rave reviews all around.
There are very few, if any patrons, that would agree to the notion of selling the product after it is finished on the open market. Ultimately, one of the incentives for being a patron is the scarcity of the product, electronic or not (unless people are ranting about doing illegal things). There are plenty of PDF adventures out there for those that find the Patron model to be nonsensical that are much cheaper as well.
__________________ I walk in darkness, the shadows my only friend. Yet in the cold of the night I wake up screaming; only the bitter silence of loneliness to hear my torment.
And aside from walking in darkness I LOVE Harry Potter...
And finally, I formally apologize if I came across as rude and insulting. That was not my intention.
Yes you did. What was your intention then?
__________________ I walk in darkness, the shadows my only friend. Yet in the cold of the night I wake up screaming; only the bitter silence of loneliness to hear my torment.
And aside from walking in darkness I LOVE Harry Potter...
It's sort of an anti-marketing strategy. I'm not interested in a mass audience for these projects, as they're meant to be smaller and more experimental work than I do for the larger publishers. They're financially self-sustaining but not meant to meet a company payroll.
And yes, current patrons get the current project, and can still pick up the prior project if it interests them.
EDITED TO ADD: I have no idea why patron projects make some folks lose their cool. They're very similar to limited editions or to subscription partworks, which are pretty well-known approaches to publishing.
The patron approach is definitely not for everyone. If you hate it, there's lots of other adventures to play.
There are very few, if any patrons, that would agree to the notion of selling the product after it is finished on the open market.
I started in ransom projects with Dennis Detwiller, who releases the finished product publically for free. Selling it isn't the same thing, though. With some thought, I tend to agree it might taint the personal and experimental qualities of the design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylander the Slayer
Ultimately, one of the incentives for being a patron is the scarcity of the product
Some might find it so. I don't see much admirable or genuine about this artificial sort of value, especially in a medium to which limited reproduction is unnecessary and unnatural. edit: It has some practical value, in that prospective players are unlikely to own the adventure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylander the Slayer
There are plenty of PDF adventures out there for those that find the Patron model to be nonsensical that are much cheaper as well.
This, I'll entirely agree with. If you think it's a scam, don't buy it. If you're right, the scheme will collapse soon enough.
Last edited by Starglim; 28th December 2008 at 02:31 AM..
Two years and three ENnie nominations later, I don't think that Open Design is collapsing anytime soon.
Precisely! Please make sure to advertise (as you usually do) next time you do a 4e project. I am a big fan of your work, but haven't had the time to participate in one of your OD projects yet, and I plan to do it next time you do something 4e.
Cheers
__________________
355 hours played
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Tagron, human rogue (daggermaster->deadly trickster) 21th level Musings of an Epic Virgin
Books used last session Black Horse Parsantium campaign: 4e core rules, Player's Handbook 2 (invoker), Adventurer's Vault, Wrath of the River King. Dulwich Parsantium campaign: 4e core rules, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (genasi, swordmage), Players' Handbook 2 (barbarian), Dragon (Playing Gnolls), Sellswords of Punjar (the adventure) Lands of Intrigue: 3.5 core rules, Arcana Evolved (unfettered), Ptolus, Spell Compendium, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, The Banewarrens (the adventure), Book of Nine Swords (Desert Wind), Monster Manual V (demons)
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