4e / GSL Wrath of the River King - Wolfgang Baur's Open Design

[catsclaw227]

Yesterday I received my download link for Wolfgang Baur's Wrath of the River King, a 4e adventure for 4th-6th level PCs set in a village that is having some trouble with some creatures from the Feywild.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to participate beyond my patron donation, so I didn't get to watch the adventure unfold during development, so my first read-through will be with clean eyes.

Interestingly, he has altered the general 4e suggestion that milestones are achieved every other encounter, instead determining that milestones are what they sound like. As you progress into different chapters of the adventure, you reach a milestone and get your AP.

(I would assume that daily item power uses are still regained every other encounter though not with the same item daily.)

So far, reading through it, it sounds really nice. The maps are attractive, the art is a fine mix of color pieces with chapter separations done in a style reminiscent of old school B&W line art, historic looking, very Alice In Wonderland like.

After I read through it, if I get some time, I will write a review. This looks a nice adventure to run in a campaign with a larger Feywild theme.

[Rechan]

I'm curious about it. Unfortunately it looks like there's no way to pick it up; I checked the online store at KQ, and apparently it's all ready 'off the shelf' or something. Even if you signed up as a Patron now, I don't think you could get it, at least that's the impression that is being given in the various threads on the Publisher's forum.

As a possible consumer looking at a review, there's two things I'd really like:

Spoiler:

1) A general outline. I guess that 'Adventure Synopsis' part you'd find at the beginning, but naturally without too many spoilers. But still a good idea of what the adventure is about.

2) What the new fey/spin on old fey that was adverised are presented. I'm rather on a Feywild kick right now, so I'm curious what was done with the various monsters. If nothing else, trying to determine if the monster/villain/fluff material is worth mining even if the adventure isn't used, for other feywild encounters/plots/fluff.

But, that's a lot to ask for.

[catsclaw227]

Originally Posted by Rechan

I'm curious about it. Unfortunately it looks like there's no way to pick it up; I checked the online store at KQ, and apparently it's all ready 'off the shelf' or something. Even if you signed up as a Patron now, I don't think you could get it, at least that's the impression that is being given in the various threads on the Publisher's forum.

I know that there was a recent poll among patrons about whether to allow new patrons to buy copies of older projects, but I don't know where that went or what Wolfgang's final decision will be.

I've been fortunate to be in on all but the very first.

[BradfordFerguson]

Rechan, there was a recent news item on EnWorld that said basically "sign up now, or else!"

Sorry that you missed that.

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by BradfordFerguson

Rechan, there was a recent news item on EnWorld that said basically "sign up now, or else!"

What a smart marketing strategy.

[catsclaw227]

Admittedly, though, it's been openly available for quite some time now. I signed up for it back on June 23rd.

[Zaukrie]

Stupid marketing strategy.

Oh well, that's what I get for not making up my mind I guess. Since you can never see one of these, ever, I'm not sure how I'd ever buy one.

[Glyfair]

Originally Posted by Rechan

What a smart marketing strategy.

The original concept of the patron funded adventures are that they are adventures for the patrons. Wolfgang has drifted a bit from this after the first project, but part of the draw of these projects is that they are very limited adventures created with input from the creators. Having a big marketing strategy runs counter to that concept.

That being said Wolfgang typically allows patrons of the next project access to the previous project (with only Steam & Brass being completely exclusive to the original patrons). However, since it seems Wolfgang may not be doing another 4E project, this might be a bit tricky.

I stuck with Wolfgang's projects up to Nic Logue's. Unfortunately, Wolfgang's patrons have seemed to largely prefer 3.5, and I am almost certain I won't ever be running 3.5 again. I also had cash flow issues when the 4E project started, so wasn't able to get in. If he ever does another 4E project I am likely in, the quality is great! However, it seems unlikely since Wolfgang has seemed to attract much more of the crowd of people staying with 3.5 or anti-4E (which aren't synonymous), so I might be out.

Originally Posted by Zaukrie

Stupid marketing strategy.

Oh well, that's what I get for not making up my mind I guess. Since you can never see one of these, ever, I'm not sure how I'd ever buy one.

The concept of the Open Design project is that you are paying a craftsman to create something for you (in the sense of "you" being a group, to keep things affordable) and show you how he does it. If you want a mass market project that you can look at and buy off the shelf, there are plenty of those already out there. He has moved a bit towards that direction (which is a shame, in my opinion), but it's still patron driven.

[Seravin]

Don't think of it as a marketing strategy so much as fairness to the initial investors. The patrons have a much higher cost of entry because they have to donate their money up front and the donations have to hit the target number before the project even starts.

I've forgtten what the donation is for the ability to participate in the creation process but it's fairly high - more than it would be to buy the physical prodcut.

It truly is old-style art patronage; where Mr. Baur has created something for the people who invest.

I can understand why some folks would vote that the product not be available to others (for less then what they probably donated) after a certain period of time.

For the record I have donated in the past, but not on this project. Nor would I have voted to close selling after a period of time; but I won't begrudge those that feel their investment is cheapened/negated by letting folks get the product after the process is done.

[Zaukrie]

I understand the concept. But, with most craftsman, you actually can see some of his other work. I've never seen any of his patron work. I'm not sure you can see it if you've never bought it.

And, for those of us that are interested in the final product, and don't want to shell out lots of money, he's cut off a market. That's fine, his right. But, it cuts out a big market.

[Monkey King]

One of the patron projects has been made entirely public; it's called the Zobeck Gazetteer, and it's a sourcebook for clockwork magic and a free city. Available at Koboldquarterly.com in print or PDF, also at Paizo and RPGNow.

That said, though, you may already own some of the work I've done for Paizo, WotC, TSR, and others. Here's the list, minus some of the recent Pathfinder work like Fortress of the Stone Giants.

The next Open Design may be 4th Edition based. It starts up around the New Year.

[catsclaw227]

Originally Posted by Monkey King

The next Open Design may be 4th Edition based. It starts up around the New Year.

This is good news.

I would have to bow out if it was going to be a 3.5 or Pathfinder adventure. Not because I dislike the systems, but I am not planning to DM 3.x anytime in the near future and I have a full library of 3.5 stuff already.

[Zaukrie]

Mr. Baur, I've read and admired much of your work. That's why I was nearly in this last project, but I missed it.

[MacMathan]

Kind of kills the point of a review, I guess.

I must not have been reading every forum close enough and missed the announcement.

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by Seravin

Don't think of it as a marketing strategy so much as fairness to the initial investors. The patrons have a much higher cost of entry because they have to donate their money up front and the donations have to hit the target number before the project even starts.

IMO, the fairness to the patrons is that they get say in what goes in, and get to review every step of the process. That's what the point of the whole thing is.

The problem with the patron business is that it requires, well, time and effort to the project. Those that don't have the time or energy to poke and prod and get into the process are shut out. And if you don't have the time, then it's silly to become a patron when you aren't using the very thing you're paying for: contribution.

[catsclaw227]

Originally Posted by Rechan

IMO, the fairness to the patrons is that they get say in what goes in, and get to review every step of the process. That's what the point of the whole thing is.

Actually, there are different levels of patronage. And only after a certain amount are you entitled to help shape the process. You can be a supporter and get the adventure, but your patronage level will not provide you with special access. Some patrons get to be playtesters.

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by catsclaw227

Actually, there are different levels of patronage. And only after a certain amount are you entitled to help shape the process. You can be a supporter and get the adventure, but your patronage level will not provide you with special access.

So then the $30 is just "pay more than a standard adventure to get access to the adventure, but only before it's finished"?

[Starglim]

Originally Posted by Rechan

So then the $30 is just "pay more than a standard adventure to get access to the adventure, but only before it's finished"?

In recent projects the "supporter" level has been less than the patron level, has only been available up until the project is commissioned and has not given access to any design discussions, only the choice of project (by contributing proportionally to the ransom) and the finished product. Any of this may work differently in the future.

[Rechan]

Originally Posted by Starglim

In recent projects the "supporter" level has been less than the patron level, has only been available up until the project is commissioned and has not given access to any design discussions, only the choice of project (by contributing proportionally to the ransom) and the finished product. Any of this may work differently in the future.

So I was correct: $30 buys you the privilege to see the end product.

So it's $30 for a product that you can't even buy after the fact.

Like I said, smart marketing strategy.

[Baron Opal]

I don't know how it is now, but when I was a patron from Empire of the Ghouls, I had the option to purchase the previous project, Shadowcrag (I think.). So, if you wish to be a patron of the next project you may have to option of buying the previous (this) one.

I do find the concept a bit limiting, as I would have like to have acquired a copy of Steam and Brass and I didn't hear of Wolfgang's project until it was too late. But I kept an eye out for a project I might like to see, Ghouls came on the docket and I lobbied for it and got what I wanted.

By the nature of the patron system, his projects either have to be wide ranging or narrow in scope. I would love him to write a clockwork supplement for 4e, but that isn't likely at the moment. I may get what I want when I see the completed artificer. At least, it will be something I can reskin.