General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
Technically, they aren't RPGs, but I think that Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, Phantasmagoria, and The Dagger of Amon Ra all have good stories that make for engaging play (they're easily my most favorite PCs games ever).
For console RPGS (and, yes, these are RPGs), the Shining Force and Shining Force II are both great fun. Both games have a heavy emphasis on team-building and world exploration, as well as fairly detailed world histories. The stories in each are meaningful and engaging.
I actually started to write an unofficial SFII world guide for D&D 3x a couple of years back (I nearly finished it, too, but then my HDD went out suddenly and that pretty much killed the project. Nearly 20k words down the drain.)
Yeah, Torment probably has the best story in a CRPG that I've played.
However, the best story and atmosphere and the like in any computer game must've been in Grim Fandango. It's been a decade since its release but thinking about it still sends shivers down my spine.
The game begins with the protagonist, known only as The Nameless One, waking up with total amnesia. He soon finds out that he is immortal; if he is killed, he will simply reawaken in the same body. He sets out on a quest to regain his lost memories, and discover why he is immortal. As the game progresses, he slowly remembers events from his many previous lives. He discovers much about the personalities of his previous incarnations, and the great influence they have had in the worlds and people that surround him.
After traveling through many Planescape oddities and wonders, such as a pregnant alleyway, two of the Lady of Pain's Mazes, Avernus (the first layer of Baator), and Carceri (the prison plane of thieves and liars), he finally discovers why he is immortal. His original incarnation had committed a grave evil and believed that more than one lifetime was needed to atone. So, he sought out the powerful night hag, Ravel Puzzlewell, and asked her to make him immortal. Ravel granted him immortality, but made a mistake: his death and resurrection would cause the loss of all his memories. His mortality now exists as a separate entity in the Fortress of Regrets, from where it attempts to prevent The Nameless One's reincarnations to find the truth.
Subplots
Most of the game content resides on text based subplots. They help the player understand the setting and gain insight into the backgrounds of the characters.
The background of "Morte" is a good example of such a subplot. Morte is a floating skull that accompanies The Nameless One from the beginning of the game. Several times in the game, it is hinted that Morte is hiding something about his origins. The protagonist might even find a message of a previous incarnation urging caution against the skull. If the player pays attention to these hints, he might use them to press Morte, and find out that his companion used to be attached to the Pillar of Skulls in Avernus, in punishment for having told a lie that caused someone's death. Telling this to someone seems to be a relief to Morte.
The player can also help quite a few victims of the oddities of the planes. There is, for example, a woman who has been lost since her childhood, because she could not find a portal home. In her search, she has gone through many portals, only to arrive in inhospitable and dangerous locations. She not only lost hope of returning home, but also got so afraid of portals that she decided never to leave a certain square of Sigil, in fear of going through one accidentally. If the player stops to listen to her, heŽll be able help her find her way home.
Themes
The key philosophical theme of the work is presented as a question several times: "what can change the nature of a man?". This question considers the possibility (or impossibility) of changing fate; many characters in Torment are fighting against their natures, or against what seems to be an inevitable fate. One example is Nordom, who, despite being a modron (a hive-minded species) is developing a personality of his own.
Selfishness is also a very present theme. The Nameless One has, in previous incarnations, been so committed to understanding his condition that he has been willing to sacrifice everything and everyone on that quest. Many consequences of this can be discovered through the game.
One idea that presents itself many times during the game is consensus realityif enough people believe in something, then it is real, and begins to exist. For example, when people ask The Nameless One his name, one of the choices of response is to lie that it is "Adahn". If the player tells enough people that this is his name, a man named Adahn will appear in a certain location, claiming to be an old friend, even though he never existed before. Another example is a recovered memory of a past event in which the Nameless One apparently debates a man out of existence. Also, the Githzerai make their home in Limbo, the plane of chaos, using collective belief to shape their cities.
Torment shares many themes with its setting, Planescape.
Other good plot games:
-Legend of Dragoon: It has a lot of stereotypical characters and common plot twists, but the basic story is still lengthy and rich. So much happens on the first disc (of 4) that it felt like its own game. Maybe I was blind or too young when I played it to know my plot twists, but the revelations at the end of disc 3 really surprised me. Not just the identity of the enemy that had been trumpeted around like a potential final boss, but how the main character transitioned from anger and the seeking of revenge to forgiveness and understanding.
-Super Mario RPG: I just like how they lampooned the plot of all the previous Mario games by "resolving" it in the first several minutes, only to uncover the real plot. That and how the game managed to be so incredibly funny without taking away from the story or the urgency of stopping the Smithy Gang. Mallow is one of the most memorable characters from any game I've ever played.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCirno
On the jRPG - and thus, console - side, I agree fully with the nomination of Suikoden. 1 is great, 2 is absolutely fantastic - or awesome, if you want - and 3 is good. Four is...don't play four. It's not bad, it just doesn't match up with the greatness of the other Suikodens. Five jumps back up to great.
I dislike FF7. Sorry. 8 is worse. I did enjoy nine though! Ten...that's FF8 level. Sorry again.
Buuuuuuut...Final Fantasy Tactics is great stuff. It's got my recommendation.
Heh, yeah 4 is pretty bad compared to the other Sukodens. It's still an ok game, just...play the others first if you can. And try to find humor in the insanely high random encounter rate, lest you just get angry and quit. Plot-wise, it was definitely the wak link of the series.
As for FF...I should have mentioned 3/6, 7, and Tactics are the only ones I've fully played through. I'm sure there are other FF titles with great plots (except 10 and 10-2, never playing those). As for saying 7 had a good plot, well...it did. I am captain of the "FF 7 is over rated" team, and didn't even think the Aeris "scene" (for those few who it would be a spoiler for) was staged well/convincingly, nevermind not least bit tragic. But, it did have an interested, troubled main character, and the backstories for many of the others were pretty deep as well. There are still dozens of better CRPGs to play than FF7, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyaa
Finally, no love for Balder's Gate?
I love Baldur's Gate, and it has an amazing cast of characters. It's definitely my favorite computer RPG, particularly 2. The main issue I had with it (BG 2) for plot was the main villain. Yeah, he was a great villain and I wanted to kick his teeth down his throat. But his motivation for doing everything...just seemed bland to me.
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Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes! Rrrar! *squeek*
Great thread! Here are some of my opinions ...
*****PC GAMES*****
Baldur's Gate wins. Part 2 is a direct continuation of the story in Part 1, btw. It is BG2, though, that has such a mindbending story arc. Oh, and I can't wait for Dragon Age to come out (the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate). My hopes are riding high ...
(THIS IS A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE: PLAY FALLOUT 3 RIGHT AWAY)
All 3 Fallout games are wonderful all around. I enjoy Fallout 3 the most for the gameplay and the worldbuilding/realism more than the story, which is still engaging.* It has one minor flaw that I can't bring up w/o spoiling anything. I would advise anyone who plays it to keep a lot of save files (that is to say, don't just re-write over the same save file).
Oblivion is great for the same sandboxy reasons, plus it has a great story. I LOVED playing through Oblivion. It is by far my favorite 3D RPG experience ... maybe my favorite computer RPG experience overall. I hear its expansions are even better than the original (similar to NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer outshining NWN2), and I fully intend to play them at some point. I think it was Shivering Isles that got all the attention. One problem: the skill system is a bit silly. Thank goodness Fallout 3 fixed all that nonsense.
Icewind Dale 1 and 2 was not the greatest in terms of story, but it scratched the itch after I finished BG. Good games, but not great.
Planescape scratched a similar itch and is pretty good from what I played of it. Unfortunately I got sidetracked after about 30 hours and forgot to back up my saves when I formatted my drive. I should probably attempt it again based on all these reccomendations.
Arcanum is another game that I lost interest in about half way through. Meh. I'll investigate the fanfixes and give it another shot one day ...
I am another guy fully impressed with the writers at BioWare. I respectfully disagree with ProfessorCirno's criticisms of Bioware. These guys are master storytellers, and they're doing the most intersting work I've seen in the treatment of ethics and how they shape the game. Their characters are memorable and complex; they are a far cry from flat, one-dimensional portrayals. I would encourage anyone who likes a good story to play KOTOR 1 and Mass Effect.
The Deus Ex series also deals with ethical choices in a great way. If you haven't played the first Deus Ex game on PC, you really owe it to yourself to check it out one day. Especially recommended if you consider yourself Shadowrun, Dark Matter, or Delta Green fan.
System Shock, System Shock 2, and Bioshock are all amazing games! Highly recommended.
*****SNES GAMES*****
To be honest, FF2/4 has a much more moving story than FF3/6 or FF7, but the gameplay is weakest in FF2. Really good story. It's loaded with heroic sacrifice in the face of crushing odds; just the sort of stuff that brings me to tears. The writers brazenly killed off characters left and right. Of course, the graphics are also really primitive in FF2, even by SNES standards. The Nintendo DS did a nice graphical upgrade of FF2/4, though. FF3/6 and FF7 have great stories too, and more engaging gameplay IMO.
Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana are both wonderful. Really, they are beautiful games. Link to the Past is another masterpiece, although many like to say that this isn't an RPG. Even if it's not, it is a perfect game with a good story and compelling gameplay. The best in the series, IMO. I also agree about the original Harvest Moon. It was lovely and poetic.
(For those with action platformer love in their heart, try the Japan only releases of Magical Pop'n and DoReMi Fantasy)
*****PSX GAMES*****
Suikoden 1 and 2, Xenogears (can't believe no one has mentioned Xenogears yet), and let's not forget the amazing Alundra. Alundra is kind of a mix between a mature RPG (grittier in theme) and an action puzzler in the tradition of the best Zelda games. It is the spiritual successor to Sega's Landstalker duology. I already discussed FF7 above.
Of course, if you're into medieval fantasy-themed games that play like Castlevania, I'd recommend the Japan only released action platformer called The Adventures of Little Ralph (Chippoke Ralph No Daibouken). It is so much danged FUN I can hardly contain myself! Keep in mind that the hard mode setting has additional ending stages that reveal the whole story. I also agree that FF9 is a gift from the gods.
*****PS2 GAMES*****
FF12 is awesome as well. Really great game. I haven't played FF10 but I've heard good things. DragonQuest VIII is another all around great game, but a bit cartoonish and with some silly monsters. I like it better than the earlier DragonQuest or Dragon Warrior games, which resemble FF1 a little too closely for me to enjoy. Wild Arms series is decent. Shadow of Collosus, ICO, God of War 1 and 2 are evocative masterpieces.
Ar Tonelico 1 and 2 (to be released in Jan) make for a naughty and sexy romp, but still they still manage to develop the characters' emotions in an impressive way; they feature nice storylines too. Persona 3 and 4 are supposed to be pretty great. Any comments on those two (or any of the Digital Devil Saga)?
Oh, and how did I almost forget the gorgeous storybook-like Odin Sphere? Best olde schoole feeling game on the console and dripping with gorgeousity and smarts. Holy crapola is Odin Sphere good. Oh, and another underrated masterpiece is Okami. This has now released across a few platforms, I believe ...
*****NINTENDO DS*****
I hear that Etrian Odyssey 1 and 2 and Golden Sun 1 and 2 are all good, but I have yet to play any of these. Anyone enjoy them? The World Ends With You is another Square title that is reputed to be great.
I'd go for Baldur's Gate II Shadows of Amn and FF7. I haven't played FF6 or Planescape:Torment and I really didn't like Morrowind - the world was too brown. Oblivion was really cool at first but I got bored after 50+ hours playing it.
I got Fallout 3 and Fable II for Christmas and have high hopes for both.
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All 3 Fallout games are wonderful all around. I enjoy Fallout 3 the most for the gameplay and the worldbuilding/realism more than the story, which is still astonishingly good. It has one minor flaw that I can't bring up w/o spoiling anything. I would advise anyone who plays it to keep a lot of save files (that is to say, don't just re-write over the same save file).
Really? I found the story of Fallout 3... rather lacking. The world is big and well built, but there's a grand total of ~17 quests in that entire giant world. And, as the OP quoted, wandering around looking for uber-loot doesn't keep me interested for long.
To compound it, I didn't think what storyline there was, was that great. To make it concrete, at the dramatic choice at the end, I found that I didn't really give a damn, because I didn't care about the other character involved.
What the plotline really needed to make the final choice meaningful was a chance for Sarah Lyons to be a romantic interest, or at least some reason for me to care about her at all.
I saw it well summarized by a poster on Ars Technica: FO3 is broad, but not deep. There's a huge world, but not actually a lot of story. And what story there is, is fairly shallow. One sequence of plotline quests, and a handful of one-off sidequests. As another example, it really bothered me that I went on this huge quest for Lucy West, and after it's done she doesn't act any different than before I did it. Way too static.
All of this criticism aside, I did enjoy the game, but I wouldn't classify it in my list of best CRPGs. Somewhere in the "enjoyable for a while, but wouldn't play again" range.
__________________ 'Imaginary' universes are so much more beautiful than this stupidly constructed 'real' one.
The Witcher isn't bad, either, I think, especially since you get to pick your side during the story-line and this appears to have a meaningful influence. (Well, I have to run it again sometimes.)
For example, I liked that you gained a certain respect and maybe even friendship with a few characters, and due to your decisions you might later find yourself fighting against him.
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To compound it, I didn't think what storyline there was, was that great. To make it concrete, at the dramatic choice at the end, I found that I didn't really give a damn, because I didn't care about the other character involved.
Fair enough. I grant that "astonishingly good" may have been straying toward hyperbole in regarding the story, but I do believe it to be an astonishingly good game. That's why I was saying that I enjoy the world more than the story. I should have changed the word "astonishing" to "engaging." Oh, I just did.
I admit I have not completed the main quest yet; I am only about 30 hours in and have been in post apocalyptic heaven thus far. I was warned/spoiled by some friends about flaw near the end you allude to. Hence, I've spent a bunch of time pursuing as many side quests a possible and just exploring the expansive world, which is gratifying in and of itself. It doesn't hurt that I visit family in DC every year, so it is a real kick to see my familiar capital turned into a beautiful PA wasteland.
I also noticed the Lucy West thing, but I was impressed how they covered continuity in countless other instances (3 Dog's replacement, rescued adoptees in the right places and displaying the appropriate gratitude, etc). As huge as this game is, I can personally forgive the designers overlooking one character's lack of gratitude. She does seem happy to see me on occasion, though.
Let's face it, the much vaunted Fallout 2 game was a lot worse in that regard. Continuity issues were so bad and buggy that we called it the "Fallout Disease." After slaughtering every raider in the world, people in town would still complain and insist that "something would have to be done about these raiders." Fallout 3 is much less buggy in dealing with continuity issues.
Last edited by dragonlordofpoondari; 27th December 2008 at 11:37 AM..
The Witcher is a very good CRPG story because you actually play a character, and people react to him with prior knowledge etc. One of the most immersive CRPGs I ever played. And several different endings are possible - there's no good/evil choice, rather pick a side or stay neutral and live with the consequences. (the identity of the final villain came as quite an emotional shock to me, for instance, never had that happen before in a CRPG).
Apart from that, I echo the recommedations for Torment, BGII and Fallout 1 & 2 and KOTOR. And I had fun with Jade Empire too.
#1: Odin Sphere. The interplay between the various character's stories, as you find a passing mention in one of something vitally important in another. Bits and pieces of what's really going on in the world get slowly revealed to you as you dig deeper into the game, with themes as diverse as romance, identity, fate, and responsibility. An absolutely brilliant piece of storytelling, and the voice acting isn't half bad either.
#2: Final Fantasy Tactics. The epitome of Byzantine politics, playing right out in front of your screen. Enough twists and turns to keep you riveted to the screen, with some mildly cliche swerves thrown in for good measure. Trying to keep everything straight is an intensive, and incredibly rewarding, effort.
#3: Final Fantasy X. This was, I think, the first time square really hit it with regards to world building. Spira is as interesting and well-developed world as you'll get short of Tolkien, and unlike it's absolutely atrocious successor (not counting XI) it didn't sacrifice character to do it. Also, Tidus remains the most realistic and best developed main character in the Final Fantasy series. Voice acting could use some work, though it gets bonus points for having the best minigame, period.
#4: Disgaea (any of them). The ultimate in JSRPGs. Enough grinding to consume several thousand hours if you so choose, and so absolutely rediculous that you can't help but laugh at any given plot point. The geekier you are, the funnier these games will be. Any game that describes an Assassin's Bow as "best used from a grassy knoll" can't be anything short of gold.
#5: Final Fantasy IX. A breath of fresh air for the series. Between likeable characters and an engaging plot, a very solid game. Plus, for the first time in years we have a protagonist who has removed the stick from his rectum. Mostly, though, it's on here due to having perhaps the single best presentation of Identity as a theme in video games, something that I feel is too ignored.
I tried playing through Torment and got bored very quickly. I pioneered on simply due to everyone heaping praise on it. I kept waiting for it to grip me in some way, but it never did. It just kept getting even more dull. I don't understand why people find it so compelling. It's neither original nor particularly clever.
If one considers World of Warcraft an RPG, which is a topic for another thread, then I would say that hands down it has the best story-line. I've never been into the story of WoW very much simply because the original campaign is very uninvolving. You're very much a witness to the story rather than a part of it.
Then the xpac (The Burning Crusade) improved things a little bit, but I tuned out 'cause it was aliens from outer-space to me (yes, I know that's not technically the case, but...) which put sci-fi in my fantasy and that's like putting orange juice on cornflakes to me (in other words, foul and disgusting, despite the fact that I just KNOW people are going to say, "yummy!").
However, with the advent of 'phasing' in the new game, even I got caught up in the story. It's very much improved the 'grind' of the game and turned the questing into a very cool and involving story-line where you are the central character of an evolving story.
To explain, phasing is essentially a clever way of making the game world interactive whilst working within the confines of a constant environment. Instead of changing the environment, it changes the characters PERCEPTION of the environment. Doing this allows the developers to focus the story on your character. The quests you undertake MEAN something, because to your character, the environment changes to reflect your success.
A good example is one quest chain where you have to infiltrate an enemy stronghold. You gain a few allies, cull a few of their number, and take on the big guy, and once you've done that, the entire area changes to become a base that is friendly to you and has vendors and NPC's and extra quests. Again, technically the area hasn't changed, only the character's perception of it.
The backstory to WoW is incredibly detailed. You might not think WoW is a CRPG, but you have to agree that the story behind it is pretty amazing.
In your opinion...game mechanics and graphics aside...which CRPG has the best story?
Planescape: Torment. The first Knights of the Old Republic would be a close second (KOTOR II is also very good, up until you hit the end of the game).
One of the tricky things about Torment is that if you just run through it with the intent of reaching the end, it won't look much different than any other D&D CRPG. To unlock the game's full potential requires that the player be interested in exploring its nooks and crannies. Your companions, for example, can change and grow in interesting ways but that requires that you spend a lot of time conversing with them. Which generally isn't required to move the plot forward. Or to run through it a second time with a different persona - like the Fallout and Baldur's Gate games, the gameworld responds to what kind of person you choose to be, but Torment is much more sophisticated on that front than its predecessors. KOTOR has similar potential but isn't as interesting, since your charcter choices tend to come down to binary light side/dark side decisions.
I love Morrowind too, but more for the world that it creates rather than the story, which I only vaguely recall. The game environment really breathes life into the characters and the cultures that you're interacting with in a way that you rarely see in CRPGs.
Last edited by Spatula; 27th December 2008 at 12:59 PM..
IMO, the CRPG with the best story has always been Super Nintendo's Final Fantasy III. It has become the standard by which I compare all others.
Again assuming you mean FFIII (as originally marketed in the US), AKA FF6 in Japan and in the PS2 release?
Yep, absolutely. Great game, pulled me in totally.
Nods to PS Torment and FF7 as well.
__________________ "This game requires no gameboard because the action takes place in your imagination..." - Cover of Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules Set 1.
Count me in on the Planescape: Torment band wagon.
Honourable Mentions:
Baldurs Gate (I & II and the expansions)
Jade Empire
Kotor (1, 2 seemed a bit forced at the end, had heaps of potential)
The Witcher
Fallout 1,2,3 & Tactics(which is an awesome example of points of light)
Seriously looking forward to Dragonage.
Speaking of which, and possibly this should be sporked to it own thread, besides Dragonage, what else is coming out in CRPG land next year that looks good?
Now to rebuild my reputation of being a disagreeable (and disagreeING) git!
Oblivion did not help or fix any problems with Oblivion. The setting went from interesting and unique to the same dark ages England that I'm sure none of us have gotten sick of by now slash sarcasm. The one dimentionality of Morrowinds characters wasn't changed at all. The skills were dumbed down even further then they were in Morrowind from Daggerfall. Aside from the Dark Brotherhood, the quests and factions are utterly banal - you can become high archmagus with your collective magic scores all at zero, and the game never even bothers giving you the illusion of choice. To top it all off, the main quest is one giant escort mission, and the game ends with a demonic invasion of ten enemies (QUITE THE ARMY THEY'VE BUILT THERE) and you're teamed up with the greatest military presence the world has ever known. Which is five soldiers, who can easily kill the invading demons on their own. But don't worry, that's just the end of YOUR role - the game itself concludes in a fantastic battle between the end boss and the DMPC while you stare paralyzed! Because when I think of awesome gripping endings, I think of NPCs fighting other NPCs.
Fallout three is 4/5ths good depending on how you look at it. Bethesda learned in almost all aspects. I'd love to say combat can be boring and easy, but quite frankly, there's something I found inherintly entertaining about going Fist of the North Star on any enemy I saw. I say "depending on how you look at it," because the game could be called Grim and Gritty Adventures in Grey and Brown Land for all it has to do with Fallout. Oh sure, it has a few throw outs, but that's really what they are; throw outs. If you judge it as a Fallout game, it falls short, but if you judge it as a Bethesda game in the future, it excells, and I'm not ashamed to say it's one of the recent games I've really enjoyed in the pitiful wasteland that is modern gaming (especially for us poor RPG fans). So why 4/5ths? Because the ending will ruin you. The ending will ruin you. It will destroy any good feelings you have for the game. For every positive remark about this game that you make up until the ending, you will feel more and more insulted. You will create a blog on the internet just to rant about how much you despise this ending. It really and honestly is that bad. End result? Fun game, do not, for the love of god, do not do the main quest through to the end. Oh, and the radio is awesome because 1) the music is great, and 2) the in game music is horrible.
Mass Effect is entertaining in one and only one way - treat it like a B movie. Something you'd watch with the help of your robot friends. Go max intimidate, grab everyone's collar, and think of it as a so-bad-it's-good action movie. The NPCs are the usual host of whiny co-dependent child-men who could never exist on their own in real life yet somehow have become an elite team of fightan mans, except the whiny co-dependent alien woman romance option and the male jedi (bionics are jedi powers, yes they are) romance option. Those are whiny co-dependent child-men and, well, child-alien, who can not only exist on their own in real life but, quite frankly, would weight about a thousand times more and would live in a house made entirely out of cats. Go for the human woman - she's the only one that approches more then one dimention as a character, even if Bioware fans hate her (most likely because she approches having more then one dimention as a character). You will learn to loathe elevators. And for the love of god, never, ever get in that MAKO, because whoever designed that needs to be shot out of a canon, and not in the cool circus way, but in a way that ensures said person dies in a horrible manner, and is then spread everywhere.
__________________ Psionics are too sci-fi, not like the traditional method of spell casting that has existed only in D&D, involves research, laboratory work, and formulas, and was cribbed directly from a series of science fiction novels. I mean, come on, calling forth the power to alter the world from your own center of will? That's not magical in the slightest! Not at all like my wizard's spell "Telepathy!"
The backstory to WoW is incredibly detailed. You might not think WoW is a CRPG, but you have to agree that the story behind it is pretty amazing.
Like George Lucas, Blizzard steals from the best and reconstitutes. They do so with a measure of panache, but it has become a bit of a kitchen sink metastory. Seriously. What doesn't get stolen by and incorporated into WoW?
BTW, the story has way too many big bads who used to be great heroes but they have fallen and now they're brooding and evil. Nooooooo. How many of these guys are really necessary?
I like your ideas. At the same time, I feel like it's easy to be a critic. I find a lot to love about the stories in both Oblivion and Mass Effect. I mean, I don't think we need a separate standard for CRPGs, but we can't always expect Proust here, can we? They're well written and executed. That counts for a lot in my book.
Morrowind's world was teeming with flavor, for sure, but I liked Oblivion specifically because of the traditional European feel. It was triumphantly vanilla and I loved it! Sometimes vanilla is exactly what I'm craving ...
Re: Fallout 3 ... let me enjoy it while I can, dammit! From what I've heard, I agree with a lot of what you say here.
Re: me just noticing my excessive posting in this thread ... makes me think ... I miss Nightfall.
Last edited by dragonlordofpoondari; 27th December 2008 at 02:07 PM..
My faves in terms of engrossing story (in no particular order):
Morrowind
Planescape: Torment
Fallout 1 & 2 (started 3, but it's on the shelf until a patch comes out)
The Witcher
Ultima series (not including 8 and 9, which were crap... VII and VII Part 2... absolutely amazing)
Baldur's Gate II
Knights of the Old Republic
Linear Mode
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