General RPG DiscussionDiscussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below.
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I think the group falls apart the minute a wise controller or solo targets that leader, then slowly works through a ranger at a time.
One or two might survive if they run, but I'm sure a solo red dragon might make them reconsider this tactic...
Honestly? I see four strikers--especially four rangers--being as ideal against a red dragon as any balanced four-role party. What should they be replaced with? A wizard? A solo monster is the antithesis of what the wizard was built to fight, and he'll drop quickest of all. A defender? Not bad, but their melee emphasis allows the dragon to literally fly rings around them.
As to throwing a controller at them, the eladrin rangers will have two good weapons for fighting a controller: the mobility to scatter so they're not in a boxable formation, and the ability to strike from range. Fey step can get you out of a lot snares.
This combo is far from non-viable. The rangers' bane is going to be enemies with high AC (because that's pretty much all the ranger can target), high speed, ranged attacks, and threatening reach. Of course, outdoor battles will favor them, and indoor battles won't.
Confined spaces, bottlenecks and controllers, I reckon will give them a lot of toruble. They can dish out tons of damage and will have trouble in staying range of the leader and if the leader goes they are also in trouble.
On the other hand for the first four rounds they are hell on wheels.
That's a cool idea, and it would be fun to play. I'm reviewing encounters that I've run in 4e from KoTS and ThunderLab...
These guys would get their lunch handed to them in about 1/3 of the encounters. They are the ones that are the exact OPPOSITE of my party. I am currently running a six man party with two defenders. Man, is that tough in close quarters in a 10' wide passage. Unbelievable, and it comes up quite often. I agree that a controller would make you even filthier. I could see a very powerful six man party with perhaps a warlord, controller, and four strikers being really tough. There are other encounters I ran, with many ranged attackers, artillery, and controllers that your party would destroy. Those encounters would probably be laughable.
Minions....with twin strike 4 rangers would blow through minions.
Not necessarily.
Just because minions have only 1 hp, doesn't mean they are easy to hit or that they can't hit you. Plus, the DM gets four minions for every regular monster of equal level.
A while back my players tried playing a group with 3 strikers, a defender and a leader... They got beat silly whenever there was more than a half dozen enemies, and they'd get overwhelmed by minions because they couldn't take them down fast enough before getting surrounded.
__________________ The Pbartender
"It ain't what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that ain't so." - Larry Niven
Any enemy that can advance under darkness, (drow, black dragons) invisibly, by phasing or teleporting, or just quickly enough to not take a lot of shots is going to be problematic.
I find that having a lot of mobility doesn't mean very much when there's nobody to hide behind. I'd assume in any fight where the rangers can't just focus-fire an enemy (solos, for instance) that they'll have a lot of trouble.
I'd say the party is viable. But ultimate? I strongly doubt it. It's likely they'll lack the versatility required to cope well with every kind of encounter. There's also less room for good synergies and tactical gameplay. It's also quite possible that the players will eventually get bored with their characters.
Still, it's an interesting experiment - if they face the whole range of various encounters (rather than encounters tailored to the party setup). Please keep us updated how it went!
^What Jhaelen said. The party will excel where rangers are useful, but beyond that they'll probably tank badly. Oh well, only time will tell I suppose.
Just because minions have only 1 hp, doesn't mean they are easy to hit or that they can't hit you. Plus, the DM gets four minions for every regular monster of equal level.
A while back my players tried playing a group with 3 strikers, a defender and a leader... They got beat silly whenever there was more than a half dozen enemies, and they'd get overwhelmed by minions because they couldn't take them down fast enough before getting surrounded.
I don't see the controller in our group hitting more than 2 minion often. The cleric has when being swarmed by undead, but I suspect twin strike would have 90% of the time matched up with the minion clearing power of our wizard.
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