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Dragonlance's "Dragons of Despair" Wikiedpia article
Yep, it's the premiere Dragonlance module this time up, Dragons of Despair! We are trying to get it up to "Good Article" status. If you see anything on the review page that you can help with, let us know.
It looks like this one is just about to pass, and we need help from someone with a copy of White Dwarf #60 for a review of the module. Anything else you can do to help with this one, let us know or just do it.
Yep, it's the premiere Dragonlance module this time up, Dragons of Despair! We are trying to get it up to "Good Article" status. If you see anything on the review page that you can help with, let us know.
It looks like this one is just about to pass, and we need help from someone with a copy of White Dwarf #60 for a review of the module. Anything else you can do to help with this one, let us know or just do it.
Gods I actually remember playing the start of that adventure don't believe I finished it since there was a problem with all of the players around that table, I wonder if they've thought of revisiting it even with 4e in mind?
Let me get this straight ... you want to promote a good article about a crappy railroad of a series, that doesn't mention the real issues with it? Though in fairness, DL1 didn't quite descend into the craptasticness that was some of the later DL series modules.
I call shenanigans.
__________________ "The Soul of D&D?It's rolling a natural 20 when you're down to 3 hit points and the cleric's on the floor and you're staring that sunnavabitch bugbear right in his bloodshot eye and holding the line just long enough to let the wizard unleash a fireball at the guards who are on their way, because they're all that stands between you, the Foozle and Glory." - WizarDru
nope, no joke. you can have a good article about a bad module. Do you know of any reviews that are critical of it which we can cite?
It's actually a groundbreaking adventure. People have trouble with it because they think there's a railroad, but it's because the adventure assumes the heroes are going to take the magic widget to the dungeon. If you decide that you don't want to take the magic widget to the dungeon, it doesn't really work.
One thing people like to point out is that if you choose to head north, you'll keep running into encounters with army units of draconians until you give up and head east again. That's because there's a freaking army coming down from the north, overrunning all of the land, and the adventure isn't about going up to take on the Red Dragonarmy head-on.
DL1 is still one of my favorite adventures. I have converted it dozens of times, including (professionally) as part of Dragons of Autumn, the 3.5 version published by Margaret Weis Productions (Sovereign Press at the time) under license from Wizards of the Coast. I put it far ahead on the ratings scale against other modules of its time, especially such monstrosities as To Find A King.
Just a note, Boz: Dragons of Autumn corresponds to DL1-4. Chapter 1 of Dragons of Autumn is DL1. Chapter 2 is DL2, and so forth. You should amend this in the Reprints and Revisions chapter, as well as probably note who published it. You have this reference down under "further reading" but it would make sense to mention it in the text.
If you take all 15 of the DL modules together, and add in the vast amount of additional material now available, you can begin your own Tale of the Lance, and it can head in *any* direction the players could imagine (or dare) to go. : )
DL10, Dragons of Dreams, was probably our favorite adventure, ever. It was a cluster to run at times, and in no way was it not railroady since you were on tracks and such, but there's nothing else like it, IMO.
Sometimes adventures are about telling a story, and we never had any problem with fun railroads. Freeform is generally a lie anyway, and it's more about motivation to follow that path than anything else. Railroady modules that amounted to "follow the NPC around as he does everything", those were a different story.
That's not to say that all the DL modules were great, but sometimes it's just fun to ride the rails.
(See, in first person shooters, it's "Linear" vs "Open World" or whatnot. It's again, more about maintaining the illusion that you WANT to go forward, rather than "well, you can't go back". Nothing I hate more than a FPS with doors that won't open because there's a padlock, or a "authorized personnel only" sign.... I've got a shotgun!)
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
If you take all 15 of the DL modules together, and add in the vast amount of additional material now available, you can begin your own Tale of the Lance, and it can head in *any* direction the players could imagine (or dare) to go. : )
Long Live the Lance!
Edena_of_Neith
Oddly enough, around the time of the "1.5 edition" hard covers (the Dragonlance Adventures book, survival guides, Greyhawk hc, et cetera) we had a group of overpowered adventurers from Krynn head into Temple of Elemental Evil in Greyhawk, we then returned to Krynn and got more involved in the after-war stuff.
DL was a favorite of mine, but there were too many changes. When we tried to get into it after the 3e material (which was generally of high quality), the novels just shaped the world into something unrecognizable to me. (Solamnia vs ogre army while a knight looks to "invent" gunpowder with 3 gnomes of horrendous names... some white robe sorcerer, blah I say!)
Also, Key of Destiny had it's faults (missing a section on "how the hell do you get disparate player types to this remote corner of Ansalon" for instance...), it was generally the release schedule that messed up the game. A lesson I then had to relearn when Age of Worms went oddball on me after I started it in good faith.
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
DL was a favorite of mine, but there were too many changes. When we tried to get into it after the 3e material (which was generally of high quality), the novels just shaped the world into something unrecognizable to me. (Solamnia vs ogre army while a knight looks to "invent" gunpowder with 3 gnomes of horrendous names... some white robe sorcerer, blah I say!)
Believe me, as the continuity chief on our books that was pretty much the bulk of my work, figuring out how to keep up with that stuff. Sometimes it worked, and sometimes we just fudged it.
Quote:
Also, Key of Destiny had it's faults (missing a section on "how the hell do you get disparate player types to this remote corner of Ansalon" for instance...), it was generally the release schedule that messed up the game. A lesson I then had to relearn when Age of Worms went oddball on me after I started it in good faith.
When I took over that adventure trilogy, I set out to make a few changes based on my own experiences running KoD in playtest and from feedback. If I had the chance to go back and revise KoD, I would do it in a heartbeat; I honestly think the prophesy angle was too hamfisted and I don't like enormous chunks of boxed text. Other than that, it's a pretty cool start to the series and I made sure to clean up any loose ends once I wrote Price of Courage.
That trilogy is intended to be a "start to finish" campaign, too, not something you bring existing characters into. My trick when running it was to say all the PCs were accompanying a merchant caravan into Pashin, they'd had almost no real experience other than fending off minor bandits and so forth, and that when the story opens they're fresh-faced rookies of whatever race/class combo they want. For my campaign, I explicity said "no evil races or minotaurs or weird stuff" since I knew that those could come into the game later with replacement characters.
Oddly enough, around the time of the "1.5 edition" hard covers (the Dragonlance Adventures book, survival guides, Greyhawk hc, et cetera) we had a group of overpowered adventurers from Krynn head into Temple of Elemental Evil in Greyhawk, we then returned to Krynn and got more involved in the after-war stuff.
DL was a favorite of mine, but there were too many changes. When we tried to get into it after the 3e material (which was generally of high quality), the novels just shaped the world into something unrecognizable to me. (Solamnia vs ogre army while a knight looks to "invent" gunpowder with 3 gnomes of horrendous names... some white robe sorcerer, blah I say!)
Also, Key of Destiny had it's faults (missing a section on "how the hell do you get disparate player types to this remote corner of Ansalon" for instance...), it was generally the release schedule that messed up the game. A lesson I then had to relearn when Age of Worms went oddball on me after I started it in good faith.
I am a Dragonlance fan (Ansalon, Taladas, Krynnspace, kender, gnomes, the whole kit and kabottle. I can even tell you the Secret of the Dragonlance, as known by Tasslehoff ... but then again, it *is* a secret, so ... well, Tas will tell you soon enough!)
Obviously, the Dragonlance Campaign changed drastically, heavily due to the books. And there were conceptions in 3E that were incompatible with Dragonlance (ala: yes, kender can be wizards in 3E. Ok ... your kender gets to 3rd level and must now take the Test ... if your DM is faithful to the Test, and you are faithful to the kender concept, your kender *cannot* survive the Test. Then again, how did your kender survive *to* 3rd level in the first place? Wizardry and kender do not mix.)
What to do?
Keep with the 1st and 2nd edition concepts (I liked the 6th level Mindspin spell ...)
Keep with the concepts as laid out in Dragonlance Tales (War of the Lance) and Dragonlance Legends (Test of the Twins.)
If you use 3E rules, adapt them. A Knight of Solamnia is a Knight of Solamnia, regardless of edition. A minotaur is a minotaur. The dwarves of Zkahar have their strange disease that plagues them, but they can be wizards (I think ... an extreme exception amongst dwarfs ... remember, everyone, that in 1E and 2E dwarves could not be wizards! Dragonlance dwarves, highly developed in their culture and history, follow this rule.)
A snobbish Silvanesti elf is going to be snobbish, regardless of edition.
A friendly Qualinesti elf, will be friendly (probably, one of the more youthful elves, since the older Qualinesti are rather unfriendly for elves.)
The Shoikan Grove will remain the Shoikan Grove, regardless of edition. I don't care if your character *IS* a Frenzied Berserker, and cannot die while Frenzied, and has a cleric with a million Heal spells. He *still* isn't getting through Shoikan Grove. (You think the Tomb of Horrors was hard, folks? Try breaking into a Tower of High Sorcery, like the one at Palanthus.)
And no version of the game, allows you to waltz into the Great Library and start burning the books. Try it, and you have Astinus of Palanthus to deal with. Or, rather, he will deal with you. Either himself or through a proxy (did you know that Lord Soth protected the Great Library, once?!) Or Bertrem will knight you anew with his mace, if you touch those books. Don't try it.
Dragons?
They shapeshift into human form. See that elderly guy behind the counter. That could be a 0 level shopkeeper (low level Commoner in 3E) or a dragon. That is for him to know and you to find out, if you decide to pillage the shop.
Because dragons are the true rulers in Dragonlance, and it is best to acknowledge this fact sooner and not later.
Also, DO NOT try to plunder the High Clerist's Tower, REGARDLESS of edition.
It is said to be a treasure cake-walk. You just walk in, take the treasure, and leave.
We had a 10 character party TPKed in there. That 1,000 foot high tower is every bit as bad as the Temple of Elemental Evil.
Death knights are just that. Leave Lord Soth alone to his curse. Or, pay the price for not doing so.
You may think that you're a Big Game Hunter of Death Knights. Which is why Lord Soth has a whole row of heads (nicely preserved) adorning his wall, of Big Game Death Knight Hunters.
And finally, Knights of Solamnia that are *true* Knights of Solamnia, are and will always be paladins. Real paladins. Not this fake stuff I often see, but the real thing. Expect a proper Knight of Solamnia to behave as a courteous, kindly, altruistic paladin.
It's actually a groundbreaking adventure. People have trouble with it because they think there's a railroad, but it's because the adventure assumes the heroes are going to take the magic widget to the dungeon. If you decide that you don't want to take the magic widget to the dungeon, it doesn't really work.
If memory serves, it also tells you to cheat to keep characters alive.
Obviously, the Dragonlance Campaign changed drastically, heavily due to the books. And there were conceptions in 3E that were incompatible with Dragonlance
Seem, I left DL before Saga, just burned out on it, so I mostly skipped the stuff between the Chaos war and the War of Souls. After the War of Souls though, and the 3e books, I lked where dragonlance was. It had, IMO, balanced the two versions of DL into something new and playable.
It was afterwards, when the Solamnia trilogy and some of the other books started going off in ways that I, frankly, just couldn't see as Dragonlance. That was where I left off. I don't want the "dragonlance shattering events", but I do like a living world that advances, but the new stuff just didn't seem to have the spirit of DL.
Things like a kender wizard never bothered me, they were easily handled on a case by case basis, and players are never "normal" anyway. It was the way the World went after the War of Souls that just killed any interest I had in it.
__________________ Why should I listen to you?
You're just a pigment of my imagination.
Like bleen or gurple.
--8Bit Fighter
In my version of DL1, the party - upon their return from Xak Tsaroth, arrives in Solace *before* the infamous Night of the Dragons. They return before any attack is made on Solace (or other towns and places in the area.)
Only ONE dragon attacks Solace. Verminaard has other problems at the moment, and he believes that one dragon should be quite enough for the job of dealing with Solace (the one adult red dragon, believes this also ...)
No draconians arrive with the dragon, although the goblins in town take the dragon's side (more to the point, they hide, and will take his side afterwards.)
Why no draconians? Unless the Dragon Highlords, I happen to believe that dragons do not need ground troops to help them. If they, for some reason, believe that they do, they can cast Monster Summoning or Spectral Force or other spells to summon help (ala the 1E and 2E spells.)
The one dragon attacking Solace is overconfident at first, giving the party a crucial advantage if they use it, giving them a chance to survive when otherwise they probably would not. But the dragon wisens up quickly, once he realizes Solace intends to (unbelievably) stand up to him.
The party alone, at about 5th level now, is not capable - not in 1E or 2E - of stopping an adult dragon by themselves, even though this dragon does not have Dragonfear. (none of them do ... there is no need of this magical effect since ALL civilians except for kender tend to hide as deep below ground as they can when dragons show up)
If the party can properly rally the entire city of Solace, * they and the entire city * together are capable of taking on this one dragon and winning. The party must lead the effort, though, or Solace will fall (and be devastated as in the book, as per Verminaard's orders.)
Unfortunately, no other wizards are in Solace. Nor clerics, other than Goldmoon. However, rogues are there aplenty, and fighters, and the city guard (such as Solace has) has a high earthen wall and some large engines of war, like ballistae.
Maybe, just maybe, they can stand, fight, and win. Can the party talk the people of Solace into trying? Well, they can try ... people have *heard* of dragons, the party *knows* dragons exist, and everyone realizes *something* is coming, but nobody knows just what.
If the party is victorious, they buy the civilian population of Solace a chance to flee, and many places around exist for refugees to go to (not necessarily on the map, but that makes them better refuge spots, if they are not on the map, no?)
It will enhearten the defenders, and some wizards of the Orders of White and Red Robes may show up to help afterwards. The party will have advanced to 6th level.
The next attack will be with three dragons and dragonriders of high level as fighters.
This next attack will be made to destroy the city of Solace and crush all resistance. The party is to be taken alive, to be handed over to Verminaard ... to be made examples out of.
Again, though, these are adult dragons (not ancients) and their riders are cocky. The dragons are angry at the loss of their fallen brethren, and not thinking about what they are doing, initially. Once more, this gives the defenders some chance.
If Solace is successfully defended, the news of an entire Dragonarmy coming from the north, with dozens (if not hundreds!) of dragons (!!!) should persuade them to leave.
But by now, the party should be 7th level, have gained a lot of spells and knowledge from the Wizards, have shared the awesomely powerful secret of the Holy Order of the Stars with a lot of people (thus, not only generating new clerics in Solace, but sending the good news back to the Tower of High Sorcery, from which it will spread Krynnspace-wide quickly enough ... and attract the immediate attention of Verminaard, Kitiara, and Lord Soth to those who started this) and otherwise gotten themselves involved too deeply to simply run off from the scenario.
If a third attempt to defend Solace is attempted, it will be against an attack on the order of magnitude found in the book. Hundreds of dragons, led by Verminaard, will attack from the air. A large ground force, magically summoned, will attack on the ground. Fear (in the form of the Fear spell, fired by dragons) will be used to defeat individual defenders.
If the party insisted the townspeople (militia) stay and defend the town, the death of those people will be on *their* hands, and Verminaard will remind them of this fact as he has them tortured in captivity afterwards (unless they successfully used the Teleport Scrolls given to them by the White Wizards before the battle, and fled ... leaving their comrades to die.)
If the party suffers this fate, they can be rescued in the nearby forest, by the unicorn and her spectral knights, as their captors pass through that enchanted forest. If not there, another attempt at Gateway (the defenders retreated deep underground, have the help of White and Red Wizards, and dwarves.) If not there, by the Elves of Qualinesti. (Heck, even the much more heavily fortified city of Haven is a possibility.)
If the party teleports out, or they evacuated Solace before the battle, they could retreat to one of these nearby places.
Now it becomes an all out game of hide and seek, between them and a large number of very infuriated (and no longer easily fooled) dragons of various types.
The dragons and their allies, and Verminaard, will be after *them* specifically. The dragons can assume human or humanoid form, in order to penetrate shelters, then resume their normal form where possible (and use powerful magic where not.)
Life takes on an interesting twist when dragons are on your tail.
If the party holds out long enough, Kitiara arrives with Lord Soth and his skeletal warriors, and later on, his banshees.
At this point, if they are wise, the party and their fellow guerilla fighters will probably wish to flee to Silvanost. This Great Elven City remains free and unassaulted, it's military might sufficiently great that the dragons (being wise) intend to attack it en mass ... something they haven't been able to do yet because they had to deal with these audacious knaves from this nowhere-ville place called Solace, and who dared to think *they* could stand up to DRAGONS, and somehow they DID, and this simply cannot be bourne, and ...
Last edited by Edena_of_Neith; 7th January 2009 at 06:56 AM..
In this particular scenario, the assault on Solace is coming from the east, from New Coast, which Verminaard holds.
However, the various Dragonarmies are still on the advance in most places, and have not taken the ground they had taken in the books by this point.
Major areas contested, at the point of the first attack on Solace, are:
Kalaman, Throt, Lemish (which holds loyal to Solamnia, despite traitors in the ranks), Nordmaar, Dargonesti (Silvanesti has fallen), and parts of southern New Coast.
At the moment, Vingaard Keep, Solanthus, Caergoth, Qualinost, Kaolyn, Thorbardin, Tarsis, and all of Ergoth are free of attack. (Zhakar with it's dwarves, Takar with it's ogres and titans, Taman Bursak with it's strange, savage peoples, Khur with it's ogres, and Mithas with it's minotaurs, are firmly in alliance with the Dragonarmies. Balifor and Kenderhome have not been attacked (or even much considered, as of yet.)
If the party makes enough of a ruckus down in Solace, Ariakas may suspend ALL his plans for the purposes of dealing with them (he knows Par-Salian won't spread the good news about the Holy Order of the Stars, but others *might*, and the last thing he wants are all these people to get the wild notion in their heads that there is HOPE for them against him.)
So, the entire Dragonarmy assault may be delayed, and refocused, on Solace and the unfortunate surroundings. But hey, when you stand up to dragons - and win - you wouldn't expect the dragons to let that pass, would you?
ANY delay in the Dragonarmy assault buys time for Theros Ironfeld to discover the secret of the Dragonlance (especially if the party helps him), with Fizban's covert aid.
And any delay gives the party a chance to find out where the Dragons of Light are, find them, and bring them back to become involved in the fray (they are out of it, not due to intimidation - no draconians exist - but simply because they are on another continent in a kind of alternate dimension. They have been there since they foresaw the Cataclysm, and made a new home for themselves away from the expected trouble.)
Also, any delay gives the party time to obtain help from other sources.
These sources could include Taladas, Krynnspace, or even other Crystal Spheres. Most likely, though, it will involve other planes and the Faerie Realms.
There are a number of ancient races and beings on Krynn that do not appreciate what is happening, and wish to take action. But they need a focal point, someone to unify and lead them. The party could do this.
The party had better do *something.* Having defended Solace against that first dragon, they have walked into a trap.
Yes, it was noble and nice to defend the innocent people of Solace from a murderous dragon (I think Sturm and Tanis, Goldmoon and Caramon, Flint and Tasslehoff, would agree with this.)
But once they down this dragon, they start a chain reaction. And that reaction won't stop, until they fall or Ariakas falls. One simply doesn't get away with killing dragons ... the consequences of killing a dragon are too profound.
IF the party flees Solace when that first dragon arrives, they escape the trap.
They also *ensure* the destruction of Solace and the death of half it's people. They can say there was nothing they could do, but I think the likes of Sturm and Goldmoon will know better.
In this case, the party is not yet involved in the War. If that is how they wish it to be, they can remain uninvolved. (Of course, it being war, it will probably involve them eventually ... and after the Dragonarmies win the War of the Lance, which they will if the party does not become involved ... what then? Perhaps they will switch alignments and serve as soldiers in the Dragonarmies?)
Do you know of any reviews that are critical of it which we can cite?
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